Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#411128
it was more "I'm ok if I don't ever see escape again" not an "is it balanced" question.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#411140
Skrain Dukat wrote:I actually agree with you. Escape is balanced because it stops and requires a discard. There needs to be some form of kill prevention option available.
Off the top of my head:

Hypospray
Genetronic Treatment

But nobody plays them because Escape and ETU are all the kill prevention you need.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#411163
Armus wrote:
Skrain Dukat wrote:I actually agree with you. Escape is balanced because it stops and requires a discard. There needs to be some form of kill prevention option available.
Off the top of my head:

Hypospray
Genetronic Treatment

But nobody plays them because Escape and ETU are all the kill prevention you need.
Bumping my own post in case this got lost in all of the rant noise above. I didn't state the reasoning for my last sentence: ETU prevents ANY death, not just death by dilemma, and Escape can prevent ANY NUMBER of deaths for a single discard from hand. ETU has been used for silliness like recurring Lal, Michael Eddington, Loyal Leader and Ikat\'ika shenanigans, while Escape... Ever set up a Whisper in the Dark combo, putting 2-3 dilemmas under only to have your opponent Escape any casualties and solve the mission next turn? It's no fun. It shouldn't be that easy to short-circuit a kill combo. That's why I hate Revised Chakotay with the fire of a thousand suns. The kill-ee isn't even stopped? Fuck that Guy.

So yeah, dilemmas should be able to kill SOME people, and there should be SOME defense. Escape and ETU are the best in class. Time to give them a gold jacket and make room for other, less boring solutions.
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#411169
Armus wrote:
Armus wrote:
Skrain Dukat wrote:I actually agree with you. Escape is balanced because it stops and requires a discard. There needs to be some form of kill prevention option available.
Off the top of my head:

Hypospray
Genetronic Treatment

But nobody plays them because Escape and ETU are all the kill prevention you need.
Bumping my own post in case this got lost in all of the rant noise above. I didn't state the reasoning for my last sentence: ETU prevents ANY death, not just death by dilemma, and Escape can prevent ANY NUMBER of deaths for a single discard from hand. ETU has been used for silliness like recurring Lal, Michael Eddington, Loyal Leader and Ikat\'ika shenanigans, while Escape... Ever set up a Whisper in the Dark combo, putting 2-3 dilemmas under only to have your opponent Escape any casualties and solve the mission next turn? It's no fun. It shouldn't be that easy to short-circuit a kill combo. That's why I hate Revised Chakotay with the fire of a thousand suns. The kill-ee isn't even stopped? Fuck that Guy.

So yeah, dilemmas should be able to kill SOME people, and there should be SOME defense. Escape and ETU are the best in class. Time to give them a gold jacket and make room for other, less boring solutions.
Isn't there a Dilemna that puts all interrupts on top of someone's deck? and another that moves all equipment back to a players hand? Swashbucklers and something else ( Someone help me here) True, they would bulk a dillemna pile and add more to the stack...And they have always been there. I've seen players use them all the time to stop the dirt from a wombo combo TT Death Charade...
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#411170
Swashbuckler at Heart puts interrupts on top of the deck.

Equipment Malfunction returns equipment to owner's hands.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#411240
In order to keep debates on the HoF process from getting cluttered in with debates on the merits of the nominees, I started a new thread for the former here. Please keep this thread reserved for debates on the latter.

Thank you.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#411248
I am convinced. I'm changing my vote on Escape to YES, so that other less-often-used kill prevention can see the light of day in HoF. I still have the following undecided:

Chula: The Chandra -
The Promise -
Stir Crazy -
Unexpected Difficulties -
Hiren, Romulan Praetor -
Par Lenor -
Rom, Professional Soldier -

Thoughts?
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By pschrader
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E American National Runner-Up 2023
#411258
GooeyChewie wrote:I am convinced. I'm changing my vote on Escape to YES, so that other less-often-used kill prevention can see the light of day in HoF. I still have the following undecided:

Chula: The Chandra -
The Promise -
Stir Crazy -
Unexpected Difficulties -
Hiren, Romulan Praetor -
Par Lenor -
Rom, Professional Soldier -

Thoughts?
I voted No on Stir Crazy and The Promise since they're not nearly as prevalent as I'd expect for a card to be put in the HoF.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#411405
pschrader wrote:
GooeyChewie wrote:I am convinced. I'm changing my vote on Escape to YES, so that other less-often-used kill prevention can see the light of day in HoF. I still have the following undecided:

Thoughts?
I voted No on Stir Crazy and The Promise since they're not nearly as prevalent as I'd expect for a card to be put in the HoF.
I understand Phil's logic. It's hard to vote for a card you haven't seen in awhile. I take the entire history of 2E into my decision. To use wresting language only Nathan will get, I ask myself, "Did this card ever have a run at the top?"

Meaning, if a card on a ballot ever had a period of time where it saw a great deal of play, then I'm voting for it. Past or Present. I'm judging the 'career' of a card.

Now it's too late to lobby Nathan, I was hoping he'd wait until I was out of the Penalty Box (I went in after Allen, does that mean he went into nothingness?), but he submitted his ballot. But since I've been chomping at the bit to answer him, I can't stop now:

Chula: The Chandra - This dilemma has seen non-stop play during the CC-era. It even saw more play once The Game came out. I was converted to Nate's "Missions First" thinking last year, but I think dilemmas are the priority in HoF. This is a game about facing dilemmas after all. Problem is, I think it's the card type we're most hesitant to vote Yes for. We think, 'shit... I use that dilemma and it works... I think I'll keep that one.' Don't lie, it's in your dirty little heart... I know because it's in mine as well.

The Promise - In the early days this was one of the best cheaters in the game. Klingon was a decent solver. They lost that flavor, save Sword decks played up North, after Krudge Denial decks ran Tier-1 for way too long.

Stir Crazy- It was the card that invented dilemma choke, no? This is another Yes if you were around in the early days.

Unexpected Difficulties - Scary to vote Yes, isn't it? Don't be afraid...

Hiren, Romulan Praetor - Last year P&P and GUYS were nominated. Almost all the ballots voted Yes for one and No for the other, cancelling each other out. Made no sense to me choosing between them. Either way you voted, that means you have to vote Yes for Hiren, right?

Par Lenor - I think the Berlin Wall incident should make him a lock.

Rom, Professional Soldier - Not as much of a lock as Par Lanor, but there hasn't been a Ferengi deck without him since he came out. He just won Worlds 2017. Pretty solid resume.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#411408
Armus wrote:
Skrain Dukat wrote:I actually agree with you. Escape is balanced because it stops and requires a discard. There needs to be some form of kill prevention option available.
Off the top of my head:

Hypospray
Genetronic Treatment

But nobody plays them because Escape and ETU are all the kill prevention you need.
Keevan
To Be A Warrior
Sickbay
Not Easily Destroyed
Medical Teams
Final Cry
Brutal Experiments
Dear Friends
Emergency Treatment
Empathic Touch
Superior Position
U.S.S. Sao Paulo
Karemma Freighter
Give or take 30 personnel who have the phrase "about to be killed"

There's SO much kill prevention. Sure, most of it is affiliation specific, but that's not a bad thing. There's no room for these card to breath because Sykes is right, all I need is two super-generic cards (and generic cards should be less powerful then affiliation specific ones). This is exactly what Hall of Fame format is trying to do. Create space for cards.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#412909
The Hosp Report: 2018 Hall of Fame Reveal Special will be this Saturday at 10:00am eastern, 9:00 am central.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePjkFwRvng

Anyone is free to join to discuss the results. :cross: that the naysayers will show up for some productive debate. After all that faceless "California campaigning" from behind a screen it'd be a shame to not answer the bell.

The results will be posted right before the show. Remember, you still have just over 36 hours to submit a ballot.
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#412911
KillerB wrote:The Hosp Report: 2018 Hall of Fame Reveal Special will be this Saturday at 10:00am eastern, 9:00 am central.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePjkFwRvng

Anyone is free to join to discuss the results. :cross: that the naysayers will show up for some productive debate. After all that faceless "California campaigning" from behind a screen it'd be a shame to not answer the bell.

The results will be posted right before the show. Remember, you still have just over 36 hours to submit a ballot.
If you want someone from California to come on your show, don't make it at 7a Saturday.
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