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User avatar
 
By VioletBlaze (Violet Edgar)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#395002
Okay, that makes sense.
That's what I thought halfway through posing the question, too.

Hmm... wonder if there's a way I can still make that concept happen anyway, of DLing a dual personnel and a person of one of the halves at the same time...
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#395116
Ok. Got another one.

Its my turn. I play whatever cards I can for free. I then make my normal turn card play. By making that card play, I am, in theory, out of "plays." (ie. I still have my valid end of turn card draw ready to go).

Now, I have a card seeded that says "once per turn, you may download x to the table." There is no mention of "in place of a card play" or "in place of a card draw." Am I allowed to d/l this card, even though I already used my card play?

As an extension, what if that downloaded card has verbiage that states "can play for free if you have yadda yadda."

I believe the answer is yes, I can still d/l this card to table because: a) it doesn't take a card play or card draw and b) it plays for free anyway as I have satisfied the criteria on the table.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#395131
Good question! Can you be more specific about the cards you have in mind? I understand the desire to keep builds secret before you play them, but it does make rules questions a lot easier.

First thing: Turns are structured into three parts:

The Play Phase - when you play one or more cards
The Order Phase - when you do stuff
The Draw Phase - when you draw one or more cards

(At every phase, you can also play interrupts, doorways, cards that play "at any time", and you can do things that are a valid response, like downloading Ezri with Crossover after you play a Multidimensional Transport Device.)

Within each phase, the game doesn't care what order you do things in. If you have a regular card play and two free plays in a turn, you can do the free plays first and the regular card play last. Or you can do the regular card play first and the free plays second. Or you can do a free play, your regular card play, an interrupt, a doorway, and then your second free play. Game doesn't care. Same at end-of-turn: if you have an extra draw for Duck Blind, you can draw it and then do your regular card draw at the very end, or you can do the regular card draw first and the Duck Blind draw second. Game doesn't care.

The only thing the game cares about is that you're doing things in the correct phase. If you beam a personnel up from a planet, that is an order, and it immediately ends your play phase. Doesn't matter if you've used your regular card play or not. Orders end your play phase automatically.

The text on Bajoran Resistance Cell that says, "Once each turn, you may download a Bajoran espionage card to one of your unsolved missions"? That's an order. You're not playing a card using your regular card play or a free play, so it is an order. (The "once each turn" is usually a tip-off.) Using Bajoran Resistance Cell's download of an espionage card advances you to the orders phase. Same with Defend Homeworld's download of a SECURITY personnel. Same with the download on Quark's Isolinear Rods. You are doing something, not playing something, so it's an order and happens in your orders phase.

So, to answer your first question: yes, you can use the "once per turn, you may download x to the table" text after your regular card play. In fact, you have to; using this order before your regular card play would forfeit your regular card play.

The second part of your question is irrelevant. Free plays are always from your hand. This is a download, not a free play, so it doesn't matter if it could play for free. The only question is whether it can download (and where it will download -- if the downloading card doesn't provide a destination, you have to have a valid place to play the card). The card you're using says it can download once each turn. Therefore, it can!

Does that make sense?
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#395142
Ahhhh ok. I wasn't making the distinction that the d/l was an order. Makes sense :)

The card I was referring to was indeed Bajoran Resistance Cell. Extra points for you, Mr. Wizard :P I was looking at the card thinking, "ok, I play a resistance for free, then my card playu on another. Then d/l the espionnage card, play it for free (cause of two resistance), which draws 2 cards .. which I can then use in the play phase." I just had it mish mashed a bit.

It wasn't SO much about keeping it secret. More to keep it as generic as possible to define the rule within itself, not necessarily to a specific card. But I completely understand how having a reference point makes it easier. But yes, a bit secret.

I'm trying to build a bunch of different decks and play testing against myself so I can get a firmer grasp on rules and mechanics. When you can play, when you can d/l, what qualifies as "X" in "y" situation, in what order, etc, etc. Different affils process things in their own quirky way, yet still follow the same ruleset. Its just a matter of learning the little innuendos.

Thanks again... as usual.
:D :cheersL: :cheersR: :thumbsup:
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#395153
This card game is a tough one to learn, especially without having somebody walk you through it. Ask all the questions you need, whenever you need to!
User avatar
 
By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#395154
BCSWowbagger wrote:This card game is a tough one to learn
But totally worth it.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#395158
Iron Prime wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:This card game is a tough one to learn
But totally worth it.
Absolutely!
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#396401
Hey cool n' the gang :)

I looked at the glossary entry under facilities but didn't see anything specific to this (which doesn't mean its not there - I likely glossed over it).

Can one have two facilities at the same location? Ie. If I seed a neutral outpost at a space location. Can I then build an additional, affiliation specific outpost, at the same location, on a later turn? Or do I need to move to another location and build?

Thanks a bunch :)
 
By Borg King
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#396403
ChadC wrote:Hey cool n' the gang :)

I looked at the glossary entry under facilities but didn't see anything specific to this (which doesn't mean its not there - I likely glossed over it).

Can one have two facilities at the same location? Ie. If I seed a neutral outpost at a space location. Can I then build an additional, affiliation specific outpost, at the same location, on a later turn? Or do I need to move to another location and build?

Thanks a bunch :)
According to the Glossary:

You may not seed or build any facility at a location where
you already have a facility, unless one allows
another to “co-exist” there (e.g., Chamber of
Ministers). (However, you could have two
facilities at a location as a result of moving
or commandeering one.)


Outside of the two Romulan HQ's you're probably better off spreading out over the spaceline if you're using multiple facilities anyway. Then you can report personnel closer to where you need them, when you need them to be there!

:borg:
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#396404
Borg King wrote:
ChadC wrote:Hey cool n' the gang :)

I looked at the glossary entry under facilities but didn't see anything specific to this (which doesn't mean its not there - I likely glossed over it).

Can one have two facilities at the same location? Ie. If I seed a neutral outpost at a space location. Can I then build an additional, affiliation specific outpost, at the same location, on a later turn? Or do I need to move to another location and build?

Thanks a bunch :)
According to the Glossary:

You may not seed or build any facility at a location where
you already have a facility, unless one allows
another to “co-exist” there (e.g., Chamber of
Ministers). (However, you could have two
facilities at a location as a result of moving
or commandeering one.)


Outside of the two Romulan HQ's you're probably better off spreading out over the spaceline if you're using multiple facilities anyway. Then you can report personnel closer to where you need them, when you need them to be there!

:borg:
I swear to god I read the glossary entry for facilities. I really did. I absolutely did not see that part. Of course, you answered, I checked and its there. Ugh.

So sorry :( And thank you Borgmeister!! Very much.
User avatar
Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#396407
Such is the mystery of the glossary.
It giveth and it taketh away.
 
By Borg King
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#396411

I swear to god I read the glossary entry for facilities. I really did. I absolutely did not see that part. Of course, you answered, I checked and its there. Ugh.

So sorry :( And thank you Borgmeister!! Very much.
Haha! no worries! That's what the community here is all about! It's difficult sometimes to keep up with all the nuances of the game and the glossary can be a maze sometimes! Glad I could help!

:borg:
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#396413
Borg King wrote:Haha! no worries! That's what the community here is all about! It's difficult sometimes to keep up with all the nuances of the game and the glossary can be a maze sometimes! Glad I could help!

:borg:
Oh for sure. It's all a really big maze. One that is awesome to navigate, but still a challenge.

It's weird cause I don't remember having this much trouble grasping the nuances. I started around 1999, right after Dominion was released (I think .. around there anyway) and stopped after Motion Pictures. Maybe it's the games evolution or my brain just leaving me but I'm finding it so much more challenging to "pick it up."

So many times I'll sim a game in lackey. I'll put up my seeds that are important in the first couple of turns, draw 7 and play it out (usually 4 turns or so). Just to see how many things I can get into play. It seems to go well, then I start second guessing stuff.

Ah well. In time, right? Gotta get the blonde hair and ADHD in check and I'll get there :P
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#396415
ChadC wrote:It's weird cause I don't remember having this much trouble grasping the nuances. I started around 1999, right after Dominion was released (I think .. around there anyway) and stopped after Motion Pictures. Maybe it's the games evolution or my brain just leaving me but I'm finding it so much more challenging to "pick it up."
That is weird, because those were the worst years the game ever had for complexity.

Maybe it's just the huge number of cards that have been released since then. It's a lot of backlog to mentally sort out. I was intimidated when I returned, and I returned at the start of TNG Block, about a thousand cards ago!
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#396416
BCSWowbagger wrote:
ChadC wrote:It's weird cause I don't remember having this much trouble grasping the nuances. I started around 1999, right after Dominion was released (I think .. around there anyway) and stopped after Motion Pictures. Maybe it's the games evolution or my brain just leaving me but I'm finding it so much more challenging to "pick it up."
That is weird, because those were the worst years the game ever had for complexity.

Maybe it's just the huge number of cards that have been released since then. It's a lot of backlog to mentally sort out. I was intimidated when I returned, and I returned at the start of TNG Block, about a thousand cards ago!
That's a good point. Though, when I started, there was more than 1000 cards previously released. Much the same as this time really.

I think the biggest difference is I had someone RIGHT in front of me to talk to, bounce ideas off of, to explain stuff to me, to watch him build a deck, etc, etc. He and I had been friends since childhood so he knew of my focus challenges. So it was easy for him to navigate around them and explain in a way I'd understand.

Now, I'm left to my own figure it out and/or with help from all of you. As AMAZING as the community is, I don't want to ask every single question. I do as much research as I can before I get to that "ok, brick wall .. meet my head" point .. then I come here haha
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