[Captain Parrish]

Can you Persona Swap Arne Darvin with Barry Waddle?

[Captain Parrish]

I think i answered my own question Arne Darvin is AU and Barry isnt.

[BCSWowbagger]

Neither has the other's name in lore, so no.

Good news, though: you can have them both in play at the same time!

[Boffo97]

Yep, it's not the icon that tells us what cards are versions of the same persona, it's just the name in bold in the lore.

Which does result in the silly scenario of Mr. Scott (TMP) being able to co-exist with Montgomery Scott, but not with Mr. Scott (TwT) or Mr. Scott (TtLG), despite the former being much closer to him in his personal timeline than the latter two.

[VioletBlaze]

Yep, it's not the icon that tells us what cards are versions of the same persona, it's just the name in bold in the lore.

Which does result in the silly scenario of Mr. Scott (TMP) being able to co-exist with Montgomery Scott, but not with Mr. Scott (TwT) or Mr. Scott (TtLG), despite the former being much closer to him in his personal timeline than the latter two.

That seems.... ripe for Eratta, or?
I mean, we could also get rid of the overloaded aspect Miracle Worker skill and give him Transporter Skill while we're at it, right? Clean up the glossary?

Anyone?

[BCSWowbagger]

No, it's right that Mr. Scott and Montgomery Scott can co-exist. Their personal timeline aside, they're from entirely different centuries, just like the rest of the Original Series crew with 24th-century cards. It'd be downright odd if playing Mr. Spock to Sherman's Peak in the past prevented you from playing Spock, ambassador in the 24th Century! And the same goes for Scotty.

I agree, though, that the Miracle Worker rule should be removed from the Glossary, though, now that we have Combat-Ready: Jury-Rig. It is classic rules cruft that everyone has to know while having extreeeeeeeeemely little effect on the game. Scotty's skill doesn't need loaded skills anymore than Admiral McCoy's does.

[kingmj4891]

Yep, it's not the icon that tells us what cards are versions of the same persona, it's just the name in bold in the lore.

Which does result in the silly scenario of Mr. Scott (TMP) being able to co-exist with Montgomery Scott, but not with Mr. Scott (TwT) or Mr. Scott (TtLG), despite the former being much closer to him in his personal timeline than the latter two.

That seems.... ripe for Eratta, or?
I mean, we could also get rid of the overloaded aspect Miracle Worker skill and give him Transporter Skill while we're at it, right? Clean up the glossary?

Anyone?

No way, Miracle Worker is an awesome skill (the CC did goof when the gave it to O'Brien as I felt it should have been Unique to Scotty). It could be offloaded to an incident or event that added the Transporter Skill and some other cool bonuses (ship repair, nullfies engineer related dilemmas, ship stat boosts, etc) . But it would have to be worth stocking and probably play for free.

[VioletBlaze]

No way, Miracle Worker is an awesome skill (the CC did goof when the gave it to O'Brien as I felt it should have been Unique to Scotty). It could be offloaded to an incident or event that added the Transporter Skill and some other cool bonuses (ship repair, nullfies engineer related dilemmas, ship stat boosts, etc) . But it would have to be worth stocking and probably play for free.

Well, I meant in addition to Miracle Worker, heh.
Though I admit, that would get awfully hard to squeeze in on Mr. Scott here... not impossible, just tough.

Also you scared me for a second, BCSW, I thought I had somehow missed that Cantankerousness was a loaded skill too!

[Not_always_but_often]

No way, Miracle Worker is an awesome skill (the CC did goof when the gave it to O'Brien as I felt it should have been Unique to Scotty). It could be offloaded to an incident or event that added the Transporter Skill and some other cool bonuses (ship repair, nullfies engineer related dilemmas, ship stat boosts, etc) . But it would have to be worth stocking and probably play for free.

Well, I meant in addition to Miracle Worker, heh.
Though I admit, that would get awfully hard to squeeze in on Mr. Scott here... not impossible, just tough.

Also you scared me for a second, BCSW, I thought I had somehow missed that Cantankerousness was a loaded skill too!

Fun fact: Mr Scott already has Transporter Skill if you rearrange the letters of the skills already in his skill box. Unfortunately, my proposal for anagram skills hasn't passed muster the Rules Committee just yet.

[frakkingoff]

No, it's right that Mr. Scott and Montgomery Scott can co-exist. Their personal timeline aside, they're from entirely different centuries, just like the rest of the Original Series crew with 24th-century cards. It'd be downright odd if playing Mr. Spock to Sherman's Peak in the past prevented you from playing Spock, ambassador in the 24th Century! And the same goes for Scotty.

Yes, but I think the point is that TOS and TMP Scotty are each several decades apart from the other, so they really shouldn't be the same persona. If TOS and TMP eras are removed enough from one another to require different era icons ( vs ), then the personnel from them are separate enough that they shouldn't be easily swappable as "the same person." Does it make sense that TOS Scotty can be native to one time location (Sherman's Peak) and then showcase a "different side of his personality" (the conceptual persona swap) and is suddenly native to a completely different time location (Khitomer)?

Additionally, I think there's very little "persona difference" between TNG Scotty and TMP Scotty. They're the same person, from the same timeline (not ), we're just seeing them (as viewers) acting within different timelines. If normal Sisko and time-traveleing (not ) TwT Lt. Sisko are the same person, then TNG and TMP Scotty should also be the same person.

Ambassador Spock and Admiral McCoy are different, of course, as they actually experienced the 100 years in between and evolved and changed as people in between, so they are legitimately not personae.

I agree, though, that the Miracle Worker rule should be removed from the Glossary, though, now that we have Combat-Ready: Jury-Rig. It is classic rules cruft that everyone has to know while having extreeeeeeeeemely little effect on the game. Scotty's skill doesn't need loaded skills anymore than Admiral McCoy's does.

Scotty having Transporter Skill loaded into Miracle Worker is useful. Taking that away and saying Scotty can gain Transporter Skill for a turn if you stock and play a card is much less useful. Unloading the Transporter Skill in errata is only balanced if he also explicitly gains the additional skill as well.

[BCSWowbagger]

Scotty having Transporter Skill loaded into Miracle Worker is useful. Taking that away and saying Scotty can gain Transporter Skill for a turn if you stock and play a card is much less useful. Unloading the Transporter Skill in errata is only balanced if he also explicitly gains the additional skill as well.

The Miracle Worker rule imposes a deadweight cost on the entire game so that literally three cards (all of which are already good) can have a free Transporter Skill. Obviously it's unfortunate for Scotty to lose a skill, and if Errata wants to give him that skill back by Errata that's their business... but zoom out from Scotty alone for a second.

Look at it from the perspective of the entire game: we have a global rule here that every single player has to know in order to use the card correctly, but it is obscure, not at all advertised anywhere, and only is relevant to a truly tiny number of cards. It's a landmine that any new player (or a returning player who wasn't deeply involved in the '90s tournament scene) is not going to find out about until it comes up randomly in a game with a more seasoned opponent. Miracle Worker ought to die the death of the Cybernetics rule ASAP, and Jury-Rig makes that possible.

Of course, I'd make killing the Guramba Rule an even higher priority.

[pfti]

Scotty having Transporter Skill loaded into Miracle Worker is useful. Taking that away and saying Scotty can gain Transporter Skill for a turn if you stock and play a card is much less useful. Unloading the Transporter Skill in errata is only balanced if he also explicitly gains the additional skill as well.

The Miracle Worker rule imposes a deadweight cost on the entire game so that literally three cards (all of which are already good) can have a free Transporter Skill. Obviously it's unfortunate for Scotty to lose a skill, and if Errata wants to give him that skill back by Errata that's their business... but zoom out from Scotty alone for a second.

Look at it from the perspective of the entire game: we have a global rule here that every single player has to know in order to use the card correctly, but it is obscure, not at all advertised anywhere, and only is relevant to a truly tiny number of cards. It's a landmine that any new player (or a returning player who wasn't deeply involved in the '90s tournament scene) is not going to find out about until it comes up randomly in a game with a more seasoned opponent. Miracle Worker ought to die the death of the Cybernetics rule ASAP, and Jury-Rig makes that possible.

Of course, I'd make killing the Guramba Rule an even higher priority.

If your opponent is foolish enough to pick a fight with nausicans, they should learn a lessonshouldn't they (and hey that lesson may keep them from a dull career

[BCSWowbagger]

If your opponent is foolish enough to pick a fight with nausicans, they should learn a lessonshouldn't they (and hey that lesson may keep them from a dull career

Yes! An interrupt or punishing you with Pain for starting a fight with a Guramba personnel would be flavorful and fun.

But the Guramba Rule just means that the battle fizzles. But it doesn't fizzle right away. Oh, no: first your opponent has to prove to you that the Guramba Rule even exists, and then you have to crack open the Glossary to find out what the Guramba Rule actually says, and then you have to recheck battle conditions.

Any lesson that involves Glossary lookups isn't avoiding a dull career. It's the definition of a dull career.

Death to the loaded skills!

[frakkingoff]

Look at it from the perspective of the entire game: we have a global rule here that every single player has to know in order to use the card correctly, but it is obscure, not at all advertised anywhere, and only is relevant to a truly tiny number of cards. It's a landmine that any new player (or a returning player who wasn't deeply involved in the '90s tournament scene) is not going to find out about until it comes up randomly in a game with a more seasoned opponent. Miracle Worker ought to die the death of the Cybernetics rule ASAP, and Jury-Rig makes that possible.

I'm not saying there aren't good reasons for unloading skills. I'm just saying that sacrificing the strength of existing cards on the altar of simplified rules is not cool. If you want to make the change, fine, just don't make it a sacrificial change.

Saying "Jury-Rig" makes up for it is untrue. The existence of "Jury-Rig" should not justify unloading the Transporter Skill from Miracle Worker without simultaneously granting that skill to the existing Miracle Worker cards. The only fair way to unload the skill is to errata the cards. Jury-Rig is irrelevant.

[AllenGould]

If we're breaking out the errata chainsaw, here'd be my vote:

* Nuke all three "cutesy" skills (Cantankerousness, Miracle Worker, Garumba).

* All three personnel with Miracle Worker get Transporter Skill instead.

* Duonetic Field Generator replaces Miracle Worker with Transporter Skill as well.

* Combat-Ready: Jury Rig - either replace it with TransSkill as well (ease of conversion), or "any Mr. Scott" (or whatevs)

* Reunion spells out the people we actually *mean* there: Admiral McCoy OR Montgomery Scott OR Spock.

* Make a Garumba incident that makes Naussicans all burly and whatnot. (Or triggers on STRENGTH, or whatever.)

I think that's everything. Could probably take Barbering out of the equation at the same time...