[tlmirkes]

This is my first post here, but I've been a 1E player for almost a decade now. I got into the game after it was already mostly done, and only recently discovered CC and these really great forums. I've been teaching some friends to play 1E, and we recently started slow and simple. (PAQ/OTSD and slowly adding more content as the newbies get comfortable, for the record.)

One of the players in my group is really interested in exploring what the game has to offer, and is very much digging into the possibilities of the play and seed decks. The one aspect that still kind of intimidates, however, is dilemmas. We've discussed in very vague generalities how to use constructed dilemmas, but we've been using a big pile of randomly seeded dilemmas to simplify our learning games. (After mission seeding, we just deal 4 dilemmas of the appropriate type to each mission instead of players seeding batch or individually.) Now that he's getting better at the game, he wants to start understanding "rules as written" dilemma seeding.

Is there a thread on the CC forums or an article that gives general guides to dilemma theory? I'm looking for broad principles that help experienced players select dilemmas, not specific combos or "trade secrets." I know enough to seed my own dilemmas, but I'm no expert, and I thought maybe I could leverage some of the far more experienced and skilled players here to help get the rest of my group off to a good start (and maybe improve my own play at the same time).

So, what "rules" do you use when selecting dilemmas? Do you have a philosophy you use to guide which ones you choose, what to combine them with, and how you select the mission they go under (aside from S/P distinctions, obviously)?

Thanks in advance!

[Se7enofMine]

Hey,

Welcome to the forums. Always glad to have new members

I dont think there are any "rules" to creating dilemma combos. They will vary depending on your deck construction, what affiliation you are playing, how MANY dilemmas you can seed, etc.

From my experience, there are 3 main "types" of combos ... and then a bunch of other one's.

1) Point loss: as the name suggests, the combo is all about forcing your opponent to lose points. Lack of Preparation, The Higher, The Fewer, etc.

2) Kill, kill, kill: simply kill as many guys as you can. Denevan Neural Parasites (half your away team) and other one's of that sort.

3) Stop, stop, stop: wall dilemmas requiring certain skills to pass.

Usually these are combined.

- kill off some dudes of your choosing, knowing the next dilemma requires those skills to pass

- point loss with a dead end


Dilemma combos are, in my opinion, the area you can have the most fun in the game. There are lots of good dillemas that can be combined to totally screw with your opponent.

[DrunkShimoda]

I am the player in question. Specifically, can anyone describe their "tried and true" strategies for seed deck building as a baseline? Walls vs. filters, combo strategies to look for and pursue, etc. Particularly in a PAQ-style format, as that's what we're playing currently. Cheers!

Edit: THanks, Se7en!

[Se7enofMine]

I am the player in question. Specifically, can anyone describe their "tried and true" strategies for seed deck building as a baseline? Walls vs. filters, combo strategies to look for and pursue, etc. Particularly in a PAQ-style format, as that's what we're playing currently. Cheers!

Edit: THanks, Se7en!

The only "tried and true" method that really comes to my mind is ... use "opponents choice" kill dilemmas to kill off a certain skill over and over. Then place wall dilemmas requiring that skill. Use skills that tend to be a bit more rare like Empathy, Mindmeld (though with the new Vulcan expansion, that's a bit more risky), Greed, Smuggling, etc etc.

There are still ways to get around that sort of thing but it's a bit more challenging. If nothing else, it slows the opponent a bit to hopefully allow you to do your thing.

Lackey CCG is a program for online card gaming. Once set up, you have a full database of ALL the cards in 1E and 2E. It's super helpful as you can look through all the dilemmas, one at a time, and choose what you want to use. Even if you never play online, the program is incredible just for the database alone.

[BCSWowbagger]

Here's a post I wrote about general dilemma combo theory a few months ago. Might be helpful.

Welcome! I love your username, Shimoda!

[Pazuzu]

Usually my general strategy is lockout and point loss over kill dilemmas. Classic combos are:
Edo Probe + Personal Duty + Friendly Fire OR Hanonian Land Eel + The Higher... The Fewer
Furthermore, I like to set up Linguistic Legerdemain but that is tricky sometimes. I find that somewhat otherwise weak dilemmas like More of Your Kind might help. Incentive-Based Economics + Lack of Preparation at a mission that requires SECURITY is also fun sometimes when.

Some other strategies might be just to kill as many as possible with combos like Hanonian Land Eel + Denevan Neural Parasites or to damage ships and add more losses with Battle Bridge Door.

[tlmirkes]

Thank you for your replies! This reaffirms what I remember learning in my early days of playing. I got a bit rusty after all this time using the random-seed dilemma piles, so it's good to hear the general strategies are still the best way to go.

We played our first game last night with our first PAQ-limited decks. It went...forward. My didn't really show up, but I didn't really put as much effort into my deck as I should have, and lost fair and square to DrunkShimoda's deck. It's going to be a bit of an adjustment going from full traditional 1E to just PAQ, but we had a blast and intend to continue exploring.

The highlight of the evening for me was definitely when Montgomery Scott was sent off via Male's Love Interest, only to be met by a Coalescent Organism-infected Vekor when she encountered a Female's Love Interest. The two star-crossed lovers promptly Romeo-and-Julietted before the CO found itself alone on the planet and disappeared.

I think I'm going to like this PAQ thing, if only for the silliness we can get out of these dilemmas.

[frakkingoff]

Sounds like Firestorm will be your friend.

[razzy]

Way back in the virtual expansion Homefront, they published a sequence of dilemmas with little color coded symbols in the corner. They're designed to make 3 card dilemma combos easy. Lead with green, yellow in the middle, red at the end. I've found them to be really useful when teaching new players.

It'd be great to see the cc make some more of these...OTSD II anyone? That'd be cool.

[tlmirkes]

razzy, do you think it'd be worth the time to look up those combos to get a feel for how "professionally" constructed dilemmas should look? Or is the set too new and different from PAQ to be of much use?

[Iron Prime]

Here they are.
A number of them are from First Contact and DS9. Not too far beyond PAQ. I'd say have a look.

[Proconsul Neral]

I'd suggest looking through the affiliation HQs aswell as recent Decklists. Often I get my ideas for new dilemma combos by reading others and then putting a spin on them.

Here's some dilemma combos we use around here just to give you some things to try out.

1. Forsaken > Rules of Obediance > Incentive Based Economics

2. Hippocratic Oath > Males Love/Plague ship > Medical Crisis

3. Lack of Preperation > Denevan Neural Parasites > Jol'yichu

4. The arsenal divided > devastating communique > vyger

5. Symbalene Blood burn > Dead end

6. Founders Secret > Denevan Nerual Parasites > Hanonian land eel

7. Edo Probe> Founders secret > the higher the fewer

8. Rock People > Unscientific method > Scientific Method

9. The clown: Bitter medicine > Subspace shockwave > Disgraceful Assault

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

Thank you for your replies! This reaffirms what I remember learning in my early days of playing. I got a bit rusty after all this time using the random-seed dilemma piles, so it's good to hear the general strategies are still the best way to go.

We played our first game last night with our first PAQ-limited decks. It went...forward. My didn't really show up, but I didn't really put as much effort into my deck as I should have, and lost fair and square to DrunkShimoda's deck. It's going to be a bit of an adjustment going from full traditional 1E to just PAQ, but we had a blast and intend to continue exploring.

The highlight of the evening for me was definitely when Montgomery Scott was sent off via Male's Love Interest, only to be met by a Coalescent Organism-infected Vekor when she encountered a Female's Love Interest. The two star-crossed lovers promptly Romeo-and-Julietted before the CO found itself alone on the planet and disappeared.

I think I'm going to like this PAQ thing, if only for the silliness we can get out of these dilemmas.

Hehe, "romance" dilemmas tend to make for funny stories. I find relocation dilemmas much more interesting than kill dilemmas, which is one reason I like Cytherians so much. Dead personnel are just gone, but runaway personnel give players choices about if and how to rescue them.

FYI this site was originally just for STCCG 2E, so the "card" macro links to a 2E card. Use the "card1" macro to link to a 1E card.

As BCSWowbagger wrote, a combo is usually built around one dilemma, and earlier dilemmas serve to either (1) make later dilemmas harder to pass and/or (2) make later dilemmas affect more personnel. (I say usually because sometimes people will just throw three tough dilemmas in a row.)

One challenge with PAQ dilemmas is that there weren't many reliable filters printed yet, so it's harder to do (1). Tarellian Plague Ship is interesting in that it can serve both as a filter and a mass kill dilemma. Otherwise you have Female's Love Interest for Matriarchal Society, several options for opponent's choice kills, and a few others.

It's a little easier to do (2) in PAQ, because all you need for that is a wall that requires a lot of personnel to pass, which usually involves some attribute requirement. Hologram Ruse, Shaka, When the Walls Fell, etc. can do the trick here.

So if I had to build a PAQ combo around Matriarchal Society, I wouldn't just start off with Female's Love Interest, because a lone Darian Wallace could walk past the Love Interest while Taitt and Gibson stay safe on the ship. I would start off with Hologram Ruse or Shaka, which hopefully forces the ladies to beam down and help out, only for one to fall in love and run away. Then your opponent would need a third female personnel to proceed.

The OTSD dilemmas are a huge help in building combos because most of them are selective filters. Unscientific Method also functions as an attribute wall.

[Top41]

The highlight of the evening for me was definitely when Montgomery Scott was sent off via Male's Love Interest, only to be met by a Coalescent Organism-infected Vekor when she encountered a Female's Love Interest. The two star-crossed lovers promptly Romeo-and-Julietted before the CO found itself alone on the planet and disappeared.

I think I'm going to like this PAQ thing, if only for the silliness we can get out of these dilemmas.

Ha, that's a good combo! I hadn't thought of using the love interest dilemma cards back to back. I guess they would both run away to the same planet since it would be the furthest? Could your opponent then play Thine Own Self on them?

[Armus]

The highlight of the evening for me was definitely when Montgomery Scott was sent off via Male's Love Interest, only to be met by a Coalescent Organism-infected Vekor when she encountered a Female's Love Interest. The two star-crossed lovers promptly Romeo-and-Julietted before the CO found itself alone on the planet and disappeared.

I think I'm going to like this PAQ thing, if only for the silliness we can get out of these dilemmas.

Ha, that's a good combo! I hadn't thought of using the love interest dilemma cards back to back. I guess they would both run away to the same planet since it would be the furthest? Could your opponent then play Thine Own Self on them?

Yup, sure could!