Armus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:13 am
Boffo97 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:09 am
Just for clarification, where does the CC actually sell cards? Tournament kits?
Because beyond that, I only see the Parek Playset on the Promenade (accidental alliteration!) and that only has shipping costs.
Just to name 3.
Oh yeah, that reminds me of another question that I have:
Is there a legal difference between selling the cards and charging fair market shipping and "giving away" the cards and overcharging for shipping?
1. I did not say that the CC could sell the cards - at least not in the way you mean it in your post. They can produce them and give them away for free under the fan based exception to copyright law. The CC most certainly CANNOT sell them without official licensing b/c the images, lore and character names are copyrighted. As an extension of this thought : if the CC was willing (and players were ok with the idea) the CC could sell cards that contained no images, no character names and no references in lore because the copyright holder on the gameplay aspects of the cards - decipher - doesnt exist anymore and has been extinct long enough that "copyright surrender" aka "copyright Waiver" is now very arguable if not a given.
2. " Is there a legal difference between selling the cards and charging fair market shipping and "giving away" the cards and overcharging for shipping?"
YOU BET YOUR GOLD PRESSED LATINUM THERE IS. Without going into the weeds on this, the short answer is that "value evasion" as a catch all term has tendrils in a lot of areas in the law and falls mostly under "fraud" and "tax evasion". A certain former president is currently being pursued by a certain state for exactly this - attempting to add value in one area, then devalue it elsewhere to personal advantage.
HOWEVER - the burden of proof is on the alleging party to CLEARLY show that the "shipping and handling" is exorbitant as the handling part has no set objective value.
The devil is truly in the details. Intent matters.
3. Once you have the cards though, because you came into possession of them in any way other than making them yourself - secondary market sales are still permitted bc everything has value in its potential rarity unless the item is itself considered illegal. Copyright law doesnt extend far enough to prevent secondary sales of copyright items b/c of the "first sale doctrine". Once a copyright item is sold or distributed lawfully, a copyright holder cannot impune any further sales or distributions because the item is considered "clean". Its basically the "yard sale doctrine". If you have no reason to believe that the item in question came into your possession in any way other than lawfully, then you can operate under that assumption. This is an extension of a lot of different secured transaction laws. NOTE: this is based on US law only. First sale doctrine is not common law and may not be the case for our european, canadian or australian friends.
4. SLAPP SUITS. If you want a really good explanation of this - go watch the episode of John Oliver on Last Week Tonight.
Sudden Litigation Against Public Participation is very much a real thing and big fish with big money can basically shut us down not b/c we are in the wrong but just b/c the can. So while it is technically legal to go on ebay and sell your CC produced cards....
DONT. Anything that raises our public profile just encourages some legal department jr associate at CBS Paramount to get an easy win for his career building effort. Certain people have been repeatedly told not to do it and why and continuing to do it while making it pretty clear they are doing it to stick it to the CC should never ever be allowed back in ever. EVER.
This brings me to my next point:
5. Since no one seems to remember other than to use it and me incorrectly and as some kind of hammer to get certain people back in - this was the issue that caused me to leave and then come back when it was corrected: the practices that were being done vis a vis the shipping and handling made it OBVIOUS that it was an attempt to value evade. The two step process that was put into place makes it clear that the point of "0 for the cards, you are paying for the right for us to take the time to put this all together and get it to you" is to fund the CC through the EFFORTS OF THE LEADERSHIP.
Meanwhile, whats been happening lately with certain people selling their stuff on ebay is clearly being done maliciously as an attempt to draw a SLAPP Suit.
SO EVERYONE: STOP USING WHAT HAPPENED TO ME AS YOUR "PROOF" THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE SHOULD LET BACK IN. ITS NOT THE SAME, ITS APPLES AND ORANGES. STOP IT.
There's a grand canyon wide difference between telling the CC leadership they need to change b/c of legal issues in an effort to try and get them to wake up and make things better (and then they take it wrong and overreact) .....and actively doing something that has no purpose other than to cause harm.
Adapt or die.