[Spectre9]

Virtual cards should be attached face-up to the face-up side of a Decipher-produced Star Trek CCG card (the back-up card); glue or double-sided tape is recommended.

So off to the printers today to get some virtual cards done. The printer was a very nice fellow and knows his trade well. Tells me that if you want good resolution color prints that a thicker paper stock is recommended. Of course I can't do this or it would be much too thick as compared to real cards.

Please don't go all "CEASE AND DESIST OMG" on me here.

Why can't we just print everything on card stock that will be about the same thickness as the original printed cards? It would be a much better usage of all the ink and the cards would look much better.

People would be more likely to want to play a game with nicer cards. Worth all the effort to get a nice product.

Is it some kind of conspiracy coming from that online wholesaler that still has most of the worlds sealed product of STCCG? Buy a couple boxes to get some backers for your virtual cards.

Is there a written agreement with Decipher on how TrekCC can use Trek property? Is this all technically illegal? I don't wish to open a can of worms here but I feel these are valid questions.

We shouldn't have the Sword of Damocles hanging over this entire community in perpetuity.

P.S. all the virtual sets being in Letter format and hence getting shrunk to 97% by any public printer which auto sets the sizing is annoying as hell. It would be very helpful to have all the virtual sets in A4 format.

[Kaiser]

You know, "that online wholesaler" has no interest whatsover in the vague chance of selling old Decipher product just as backing cards, because you are free to use any old card that has the same size (as long as you are using the same backers for all your cards, or have fully opaque sleeves). If you seriously have trouble finding spare product (...Magic?) as backing cards for free, or postage only, you are doing something wrong. Even Trek cards often go right into the bin after sealed events (apart from the occasional rare)

Also, completely agree on the A4 thing.

[Spectre9]

Thanks for your response.

I see you're in a non-CONUS region too. The whole A4 vs Letter thing caught me by surprise. In all my years I never knew paper was wider in the United States and hence when you try to print any virtual cards the printer wants to auto shrink everything to 97%.

Either you have access to the print settings and you manually select 100% full size which only crops off some of the useless white border or you have to give specific instructions to the people taking your print job.

I have a whole stack of 97% cards printed on glossy stock I paid for now

There really should be an official printing guide. If there isn't one that seems like a glaring omission seeing as it's pretty much the #1 purpose of TrekCC to create new cards you can print yourself and play with.

I don't want to come across as somebody that is antagonistic. I can be happy with thin stock backed with real cards, I just felt like getting it all off my chest going through these trials to get some cards I'm happy with.

Backing cards aren't the issue for me. Got heaps of jank. I was more just talking about thin paper stocks not giving the highest quality finish with thick color ink printing.

The printer I went to was very nice (different shop to the 97% card debacle) and gave me a test sheet to take home cut up and sleeve to see if I liked them before quoting me for a batch.

[Kaiser]

The people who set up the first .pdfs probably weren't aware that their format of choice might not be the best in other parts of the world. I've had the same experience, but these days I've switched to creating individual files with only the cards I need for my deck, in the quantity I need. I've stopped printing one or several full sets and have the sit in a binder somewhere long ago; I find that deckbuilding actually goes faster for me if I just print a new deck when I need one, instead of spending hours looking through binders and boxes, no matter how neatly I might keep everything organized (which I don't.)

As for the legal ramifications, I'll leave those details to others.

[jadziadax8]

When it comes to printing virtual cards on cardstock:

Every couple of months, someone pops up on eBay who has either a) printed and assembled Continuing Committee virtual cards or b) made up their own virtual cards and try to sell those.

The former situation is bad because these people are trying to make money off the labor of others. (Yes, I understand that last statement is capitalism in a nutshell. )

The latter is bad because we don't want people thinking that those cards are legal for tournament play in our tourneys.

Both situations are bad because when people have done them in the past, we have gotten the Cease and Desist letters from Decipher.

This is why we maintain a policy for printability, which is outlined on page 13 of the Organized Play Guide.

Now, can I stop you from printing on cardstock if you want to use them for your own personal collection? Of course not. All I would ask is that you don't print the delta shield back onto them. That way they could never be confused for Decipher-era cards.

[BCSWowbagger]

Both situations are bad because when people have done them in the past, we have gotten the Cease and Desist letters from Decipher.

Really? From Decipher?

I honestly assumed it would be CBS sending the C&D's, if anyone.

[jadziadax8]

AFAIK, and Charlie can correct me if I’m misremembering what he told me, but when we had problems a few years ago with tournament kits and the Promenade it was because D was unhappy with how we were selling them. That’s why we sell the TD passes and then you separately pay for shipping.

It’s like when you bought that red solo cup at house parties in college.


Sent through Subspace from the Starship Enterprise

[edgeofhearing]

That’s why we sell the TD passes and then you separately pay for shipping.

My memory is that the reason why they're sold separately is that European and Australian players were getting hit with exorbitant importing fees.

[jadziadax8]

That’s why we sell the TD passes and then you separately pay for shipping.

My memory is that the reason why they're sold separately is that European and Australian players were getting hit with exorbitant importing fees.

I had forgotten about that one, which is also true.

[AllenGould]

Both situations are bad because when people have done them in the past, we have gotten the Cease and Desist letters from Decipher.

Really? From Decipher?

I honestly assumed it would be CBS sending the C&D's, if anyone.

I suspect that a CBS/Paramount C&D would be a bit more... final.

At least Decipher has some reasons to want to let us stick around.

[Spectre9]

I thought Decipher was dead dead. So they're only partly dead but still watching?

Thanks for your input jadzia. Really helpful

[AllenGould]

I thought Decipher was dead dead. So they're only partly dead but still watching?

Someone is still updating the website, at least. So, as they say - mostly dead is still slightly alive.

[Boffo97]

I thought Decipher was dead dead. So they're only partly dead but still watching?

Someone is still updating the website, at least. So, as they say - mostly dead is still slightly alive.

I'd make a joke about going through their pockets for loose change, but we'd have much more of a game if someone hadn't already done that...

[BCSWowbagger]

I suspect that a CBS/Paramount C&D would be a bit more... final.

They are more reasonable than their reputation allows. It's rarely publicly talked about, but there are several fan film projects that had extremely friendly under-the-table relationships with CBS -- relationships which were in at least one case started with a Cease and Desist order. They're good folks, and the regime for the last 15 years or so really likes fan stuff and really tries not to stomp on it. (The forbearance they showed Axanar for years while Alec Peters gave them the finger is a really good example of this.)

So it wouldn't shock me that they'd be open to some dialogue. But, yeah, obviously, nobody wants the risk that they wouldn't!

[T-Ricks]

. . . these days I've switched to creating individual files with only the cards I need for my deck, in the quantity I need. I've stopped printing one or several full sets and have the sit in a binder somewhere long ago; I find that deckbuilding actually goes faster for me if I just print a new deck when I need one, instead of spending hours looking through binders and boxes, no matter how neatly I might keep everything organized (which I don't.)

Same here, much faster and I always have the most current version of the cards. A standard laser printer on plain paper gives me a more than acceptable quality of card. Sometimes I even have to check that I am looking at a paper copy of a card after it is sleeved, rather than an actual one. I NEVER glue, paste or tape my printed paper cards to my backers.