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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#505638
AllenGould wrote:
Spectre9 wrote:The whole giant menacing tentacles thing was totally cringe.

Not that anything really matters. Borg have Sikarian gateways now, they only need about 5-10 to take over the entire galaxy so good luck with that 8)
They already had transwarp conduits, and those let you bring your giant d6s. Borg never suffered from a lack of how, just a lack of will to.
Yeah why only send 1 Cube to earth? That Transwarp Hub exit was there a long time, why not send half the collective to assimilate the entire Alpha Quadrant? Then when the Dominion roll through the wormhole they have a big surprise waiting for them... which cosmic bunny hole do we have to send Worf's shuttle through to get that universe?
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#505653
...d...6s? What, are they rolling for assimilation now? ;)
AllenGould wrote:The finale is still bugging me, and I think I get why - it shouldn't be Riker leading the fleet.
Can't bring myself to give up what we had with Riker, but before that I was looking forward to Clancy showing up and having a zinger or two for Oh.
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By Spectre9
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#505657
AllenGould wrote:
Spectre9 wrote:The whole giant menacing tentacles thing was totally cringe.

Not that anything really matters. Borg have Sikarian gateways now, they only need about 5-10 to take over the entire galaxy so good luck with that 8)
They already had transwarp conduits, and those let you bring your giant d6s. Borg never suffered from a lack of how, just a lack of will to.
I guess there's always the old line "their distinctiveness was not added to our own". The Borg can't detract from perfection.
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By Cartagia
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#505667
AllenGould wrote:Plus, having Riker there (and not Admiral whazzername) means that the beginning of the series really is Starfleet just dicking Picard around. (Oh yeah, we have hundreds of these ships just kicking around. No you can't have one.)
I don't think the issue was ever that they didn't have the ships, it was that A) Starfleet did not want to placate Picard in anyway because he was on such bad terms with them - especially after the interview and B) Commodore Oh made sure that no real investigations occurred and that everyone saw it as the delusions of an old man. Remember that Clancy did go to her for follow-up after Picard's initial visit.

After the events at The Artifact, Picard's follow-up with Clancy, and the diplomatic entreaty (including with the realization that Oh was a mole) they knew that they needed a real show of force.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#505676
So here's my take after a few days of rumination. I've been rewatching ds9 and tbh it's really, unintentionally showing all the problems with st:p.

Pacing: I said this before, but this story was really a movie but they stretched it out to a 10 episode show but then had to fill in episodic dialogue and depth and they simply didnt have the time so what we end up with was a tv show movie that was really neither. Full of plot jumps and only superficial lip service to character depth.

Dialogue: the dialogue is a tool to highlight both the plot and the character motivations. As a serial, the dialogue especially needs to doth both really really well. You should be easily able to follow what is happening and why and it should reasonable. I constantly felt throughout st:p that I couldnt follow why someone would be saying what they are saying and what purpose it even served. It frequently felt like each character would just say something bc plot demanded it, not bc it was in character.

Character: which leads me to the next problem. With only 10 episodes, most of the characters are still 2 dimensional and worse what little character development we got was pretty flimsy. Rios' story was really the only one to have a firm premise, explanation, and consistency. If you are gonna make such a big deal about something you shouldn't leave it a total mystery. Why did rafi take picards resignation so hard? We know she was considered fringe with her theory but that's not enough to lead us to find her total meltdown as a logical result. Jurati sees one mental image and goes from soft kitten to murderer? That's a HUGE CHANGE and we need more explanation than just "well some people go insane when they directly contact the admonition" bc she didnt contact it and going insane does not equal homicidal. The central character point of the human simulating androids struggling with it....such a huge focus early just gets full on dropped so we can just jump to evil android trying to start the war.

Plot: which gets us to what I said earlier. This was a movie plot that got stretched into a show but when it did, it clearly got contorted to fit a show format arc instead of keeping the movie arc that would have worked better.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#505684
Data's Socks wrote:...d...6s? What, are they rolling for assimilation now? ;)
AllenGould wrote:The finale is still bugging me, and I think I get why - it shouldn't be Riker leading the fleet.
Can't bring myself to give up what we had with Riker, but before that I was looking forward to Clancy showing up and having a zinger or two for Oh.
And for me, we got a really good ending for Riker back on the homestead. He's got his happy ending. (And meanwhile, it kinda wrecks Troi's whole bit, which is a loss.)
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#505700
Picard escaping his fate has really divided the community. Personally, I loved that it allowed him to live out more of his life in dignity. It was always hanging over him and while that fate isn't assured now, it's more assured. It can be seen as a cop out, but it puts the character in a better place going forward and that's a win for everyone.

Another divisive choice was Data's death scene. The one in nemesis was very quick, with Picard barely being able to react. This gave them a chance to talk it out and was a better end for Data.

Overall there are two types of season endings; cliffhangers and closed loops. Trek had a solid spate of closed loops until mid TNG. With the new All Access series, barring Discovery season one (and even that is debateable) they have been able tot ell a self contained story. We have resolution on several major fronts while leaving things open for a second season.

We've seen the Fleet Commanders Facing Off Until One Stands Down scene (with another Romulan fleet none the less!) but Frakes and Tomita played it well. Granted it involved a bit of fudging, but it worked better with a character and actor than Clancey, for example.

Other characters are a mixed bag. Rios didn't really get a Han Solo moment and Narek actually had fun being a drunk [REDACTED]. They finally had him do something cool. I liked the concept of Elnor better than the execution, but he brought out good things in the characters he spoke to. Raffi was middling in the end and Soji now has a place to fall back to, both a home planet and a new crew to work with. Jurati found her place in the crew. We've got them off to their next adventure (for some reason since Rios just signed on for one mission) and ready for season two with
Guinan
.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#505701
Guinan.

Because the one thing this ship full of addicts needs is a bartender. :thumbsup:
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By ias
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#505703
monty42 wrote:Guinan.

Because the one thing this ship full of addicts needs is a bartender. :thumbsup:
LOL
 
By lotjx2
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#505711
Riker coming back was amazing. When he mentioned he was active duty, I was like oh this going to be a thing. It also doesn't take away from Troi. She probably told him to go. I actually liked the crew, they were more broken dolls than TNG. Along the lines of DS9 and it took me two seasons to like Kira and another two more for Quark. I'm rewatching DS9 now and I'm sorta back to not liking the Bajorans. They are fantastics who still believe their Gods are good even though they dick Sisko around for seven years. Not much difference between them and how the Dominion view the Founders.
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#505723
monty42 wrote:Guinan.

Because the one thing this ship full of addicts needs is a bartender. :thumbsup:
Well, we all know Guinan is coming to season two, so no suprises there.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#505726
lotjx2 wrote: It also doesn't take away from Troi. She probably told him to go.
How does that reconcile with her scene where she straight up says she's not as brave as she used to be, and Picard reassures her he ain't gonna endanger them?

And it's not an impossible circle to square, but with only ten episodes it begs the question of why have both scenes? The family ep could have easily been shaded as "maybe we don't roam the galaxy but we defend this turf" instead of "we got hurt and now we hide here because the galaxy is full of suck". (Heck, you coulda kept the older sib alive, which gives Riker a very compelling reason to come save the day.)
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#505746
Near Topless Prime wrote:
monty42 wrote:Guinan.

Because the one thing this ship full of addicts needs is a bartender. :thumbsup:
Well, we all know Guinan is coming to season two, so no suprises there.
I was less surprised than relieved. If the show continues with this quality writing, we're all gonna need a skilled bartender.
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E World Runner-Up 2023
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2023
#505784
So the latest First Edition set has Romulans, Synths, and a main character captain as an android...

Coincidence? Did we know the plot years before the show aired? :P
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