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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#503937
The sufferings of a Star Trek fan - An unbridled rage against the mess that is Star Trek: Picard

For 18 long years fans had to wait for a Star Trek show that plays post Nemesis and draws from the enormous character pool of the TNG era.
After an unwanted prequel (Enterprise), a mostly hated action-reboot (The Kelvin timeline) and the colossal clusterfuck that is the Discovery abomination one had to at least be apprehensive about Picard (given that as with Discovery, franchise-killer Alex Kurtzman had his untalented hands at the wheel).
However I have to admitt that I was incredibly hyped by the prospect of a sequel placed in the post-TNG era.

I love TNG and DS9! To me those two shows are the epitome of Star Trek. I grew up on those shows and I know most of their episodes in and out.
Jean-Luc Picard is one of my greatest childhood heroes!


Star Trek: Picard however not only manages to completely destroy the character Picard but also to throw the complete Star Trek universe into the dumpster.
The once utopian world view of the federation and starfleet, whose most important goals have always been to explore, seek out new life and new civilizations, understand new cultures, build bridges and self improvement is pushed aside to be replaced by a dark, bloody, hateful dystopia.
Gone are the times of exploration and building bridges. Instead they have retreated from the rest of the galaxy and represent xenophobic views.

And all of that because of a terror attack on Mars by mass produced androids, 14 years before the main story sets in.

They want to feed us a narrative in which the Federation, which in the last 30 - 40 years overcame the borg invasion, terrorist attacks by the Founders and the Breen and the wars against the Klingons and the Dominion (which claimed billions of lives), betrays all of it's principles because of a nebulous act of terrorism by androids.

RIDICULOUS!

Parallel to that story Romulus suffered the fate known from Star Trek 2009 and STO. The Hobus supernova caused the destructin of the planets Romulus and Remus. (Why the vast Romulan star empire wasn't able to overcome that destruction is beyond me but Star Trek always tackled important social issues so the writers obviously felt it neccessary to hit us over the head with a refugee crisis which however in context with the story makes absolutely no sense.)
Now the Federation has to deal with hordes of romulan refugees which they themselves left to their fate. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS? The United Federation of Planets, the most humantitarian institution of the alpha quadrant refuses to help with the rescue of billions? SHEER FUCKING HUBRIS!

And this is only a small precursor to the violations this once so great franchise had to endure.
Not even Q could've come up with such a disastrous reality to fool his favorite human Picard. (A part of me still hopes that all of this is just a nightmare which will end with a snap of Q's finger.)

The extremely far fetched main storyline is about an aging, disillusioned Picard who, because of the atrocious decisions of the federation/starfleet has retired to his Château on earth
In spite of his achievements, which go beyond anything any starfleet officer has ever accomplished, he is all of a sudden a universally (rather pointlessly) hated man.

One day a mysterious, young woman shows up on his doorstep on account of visions. She is being pursued by an ominous group and asks Picard to help her.
It turns out that the girl is Data's... wait for it... "clone" (yes, that's how bad the story is)! But even with Picard's help, she eventually gets killed.
However it turns out that she has a "twin sister".

Because he seemingly never overcame the loss of Data and also doesn't have anything better to do, good Jean-Luc goes on a quest to find the sister and save her from any harm that might come to her. (Which hopefully includes watching this show.)
To accomplish that goal however he doesn't call upon his loyal crew from back in the day but a cheap Guardians of the Galaxy rip off which consists of a bunch of completely unlikable sociopaths.


It's mind boggling how shows this day in age can have such enormous budgets that they can audio-visually compete with blockbuster movies and yet the people behind them have no clue what to do with them.
Instead of exploring strange new worlds or contemplating questions of philosophy or ethics, they throw everything over board that made Star Trek what it is. (Or what it was, rather) And for what?

For the benefit of a pointless shameful mystery story á la Lost which is on top garnished with a lot of action, death and genocide, dumb dialogues and placative political messages.
There is only good and bad, they shoot their way out of situations on general principle and the decisions of the characters at no point make any sense!

On top of that there is drinking, smoking and cursing that makes you want to throw up.

Logic and mind are replaced by faith and fatalism which degrades Star Trek from Science-Fiction to just Fiction.

Beloved characters get ruined. Especially the great Jean-Luc Picard who gets depicted as sort of a 90 year old half-wit who blindly throws himself into the heart of action without rational thought.
There is not the slightest comparison to the epitome of authority that Jean-Luc Picard once stood for. He has nothing to do with the legend that TNG once turned him into.

To me this is the worst blow that this god aweful show has dealt to the franchise.

The new characters in the show are almost all unlikable and completely forgettable. Even at the end of the season I can hardly remember any of their names.
The "strong" women in the show are despisable characters who keep talking down on Picard even though they have nothing to show for.

The annoying Dr. Jurati, who tests the audience's patience with her dumb (space is boring) gibberish, sadly gets reinforced by the completely broken Raffi who, like every other character in this damn show, has a completely unfounded grudge against Picard.
This dumb junkie, who dares to call Picard casually J.L. (J.L.!!!) believes all the bad luck that has befallen her comes from Picards decision to leave starfleet. This is by far the worst character in the history of Star Trek! (Even Wesley Crusher was a beacon of sympathy compared to her!)

Data's daughter/clone boringly fades into the background along with all the other pointless characters but obviously she's the main part of a romulan prophecy.

Does anybody remember the good female characters? Tasha Yar, Kira Nerys and Jadzia Dax who were just badass. Even Janeway with all her flaws was worlds better than the female representations we get served here.
Or Seven of Nine... good old Seven... another character that gets dragged through the gutter here.
As a guns blazing, wrecked archangel she roams romulan space as a space-ranger (?)
Of course the question comes to mind why Seven of all people cares about the fate of the romulans. By her explanation somebody had to do it because Picard couldn't. Which obviously doesn't make sense because Picard
was the one starfleet officer who tried to save the romulans but whatever... The main thing is she's out for revenge because she feels responsible for Icheb's death.
Which obviously has to be depicted very graphically. Icheb, one of the beloved characters from Voyager gets torn apart, screaming in pain and in the end Seven gets to end his suffering.

Yes, exactly what I hoped for in a new Star Trek show... It is simply disgusting!

And it doesn't get any better with the male characters as well.
The sword swinging samurai romulan (dubbed Romulegolas) is an unworldly, naive brat who grew up with romulan warrior nuns and without further ado decapitates a former romulan senator after Picard himself provoked the confrontation.
And of course he's mad at Picard because he feels betrayed and left behind by him. Because it turns out 14 years ago Picard overcame his child-phobia and became sort of a father figure for Romulegolas. Urgh...

The most likable character I'd say is Captain Star Lord but even he (like everybody in this damn universe) gave up.

Everything is dark, broken and hopeless. Within just a few years everything went down the gutter. Even though just a few years before everybody furiously fought for everything the federation stood for.

Weak, Mr. Kurtzman. Very, very weak.

Nothing looks like Star Trek or feels like it. Even though they keep trying to appeal to your nostalgic feelings with tiresome (and sometimes blatantly wrong) references to things, events or characters.
Mainly though they try to appeal to the broadest possible audience.

Instead of giving the fans what they want, they're serving us weak sauce that makes me rather eat dead Gagh.

The name Star Trek is still on the building but the interior is rotten to the core.


In closing:

The show looks amazing, for sure. But what does that matter when there's no substance to it?
The score is ok. It mostly just rolls along until there's a nice hint to a classic Star Trek theme.
The performance of the actors though is mostly meh. Astonishingly Patrick Stewart is really bad in some parts. Especially the ones where he plays the fool. So sad.

I could go on and on and on about the little things that bug me about this show, there's breaches of logic, lore and canon in almost every episode.
It's truly a shame what Star Trek has become.

There are countless fan-productions that are better than everything we got served under the official banner for the past 11 years.

In my opinion Star Trek: Picard deserves the golden Picard-Face-Palm-Award!
Last edited by monty42 on Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#503960
Thank you for validating my decision to not subscribe to CBS All Access.

If there's a silver lining, it's that I didn't have to pay for the privilege of watching this universe and characters get (apparently literally in some cases? ) torn apart.

I got my H&I viewing, where they show an episode of each "classic series" (TOS-ENT) every night 6 nights a week. That's right, 30 hours a week of free, good Trek. And every now and then I stumble across an episode I either haven't seen before or I haven't seen in years and it's an extra special treat!

Then there's TAS, which my kids are into and is more good (Yesteryear, Lorelei Signal, Counterclock Incident, More Tribbles, More Troubles) than bad (Beyond the Farthest Star, Albatross) despite being a little silly at times - it's still fun.

Have faith of the heart, Ben. The new stuff may be total shit, but the old stuff that made you fall in love with this universe and these characters is still there to be enjoyed. :cheersL:
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European OP Coordinator
 - European OP Coordinator
 -  
#503969
Hey Ben!

To be honest, I haven't read your initial posting completely (because I haven't watched the latest episode yet and I don't want to have any spoilers), but I've read several of your other comments on the series and want to give you some counter-arguments:

*) The Tal Shiar subsection (no idea how to pronounce them):

Yes it is something new we haven't heard about before. But is that bad? No

We have learned so much NEW in all the Star Trek Series before. Because my beloved wife has one "Failure" I have to show her all the Trek series (she hasn't seen them before). Right now we're on Voyager. You don't believe how many right now "common" knowledge about the Borg was invented back then and screwed a lot up that has been shown before. Examples: a Vinculum in every Cube, ability to seperate them quite easily, they don't adapt and act as a real Collective but they have a Queen to see and react to it on purpose, and so on.

So the fact that the Tal Shiar, a faction we've known it is there and dangerous and powerful and treacherous, has some deeper secret organziations INSIDE them is nothing uncommon. Was Section 31 so disturbing for you as well? Something deep inside we haven't heard before?

If the Federation, from which we had 2,6 entire series before to learn everything from them, has such a covert departement, why shouldn't the Tal Shiar we only had time to learn about them for maybe 10 episodes also have such a thing?

*) "Darkness" of Starfleet

Yes, Starfleet in Picard is dark and not so bright and happy as we know it.

I'll tell you how I see this issue: We have always seen shows from Starfleet's side. All the moral, all happy, so good.

Just take a minute and think about the one alien of the weeks the Enterprise didn't help because it was against the prime directive. Was it so bright and shiny for him?

IF Voyager was not made as Voyager, but as a show about Chakotay's Maquis ship with a Vulcan infiltrator with a bad Intrepid class ship commanded by a grumpy female, and we see the Maquis folk all the time, how good do you think the Federation will be there?

Here we see a series about ONE man pissed off by the Federation (for some good reasons), so it's completely fair that the Federation is dark here...
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By Cersan
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E Russian National Second Runner-Up 2016
#504025
Care to ellaborate on why do you watch the stuff that you hate? I recall you hated the second or third episode already. I myself dump stuff that I don't like. Like I'm a huge Doctor Who fan, but I can't stand 13th Doctor so I just quit watching and now waiting for showrunner and/or Doctor to change. You on the other hand watched 2 seasons of Discovery and a season of Picard, why?
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#504038
monty42 wrote:The sufferings of a Star Trek fan - An unb...

blah blah blah

monty42 wrote:
Cersan wrote:Care to ellaborate...

No.

There you go ...
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#504040
I'm surprised at how much I agree with in this review, and still be able to enjoy it.
The only thing I don't agree with at all (and that I want to comment on here), is the characterizations. I actually like Dr Jurati and Raffi. (Not the smoking, cursing(!) and blatant drug use(!!) and its implicit condonement(!!!), though. That, indeed, are examples of things that do not belong in Trek; I can stand it or even support it in other -- gritty realistic -- media, but not here. Trek should have remained stylized, not this realistic.) I like Rios a lot, too. And to me, Picard is well-extrapolated into his venerable age.
There are other, more minor examples of what I disagree with here (i.e., things which I do like) -- but I've already enthusiastically written about those things in the main ST PIC thread. No need to repeat them.

With the rest, I agree.

What I think I may see here (the following, thusly, are interpretations or assumptions) after Monty's professions of love for the past (which I also share, naturally), is understandable and recognizable frustrations and anger at the very different, current state of affairs. Anger at being betrayed, anger at having one's beloved franchise twisted beyond recognition. And while I can still mildly-to-quite enjoy this series, I do feel the hints of same. I sympathize/agree.

And what I see reflected, is my own festering hatred for what was done with Star Wars (the latest trilogy, mainly but grossly). I don't feel, personally, that it's that bad with PIC, or even the JJA films; but I may just have a bit broader apetites/tastes, and/or just may be a less critical/more forgiving fanboy. That does not detract at all from some of the demerits described in OP. And I can certainly understand that others would perceive it as exactly as bad as the new Wars trilogy -- or worse. (Because, arguably, the soul of Trek was vandalized more blatantly than that of Wars.) There's grounds for feeling that way, and it pains me. It irritates me while watching (although my fanboy can yell louder).

Trek didn't need this much updating to the current times. Or perhaps there was not, as has been said, a great need for a new Trek series; perhaps what the world is today, can't actually produce a satisfying Trek product. I don't know. (Writers and producers, if you read this, consider it a challenge. Please prove me wrong.)

I really feel that Hollywood has grown in technical storytelling and production; vFX, editing, consistency of design and production, and even internal storyline... but looking also at e.g. the horrid torrent of reboots, Hollywood has lost something OTOH in the area of ideas, actual stories and plots, and depth.

Please regain it.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#504041
Nerdopolis Prime wrote:
monty42 wrote:The sufferings of a Star Trek fan - An unb...

blah blah blah

monty42 wrote:
Cersan wrote:Care to ellaborate...

No.

There you go ...

As I read it, his feelings are genuinely hurt. Those producers and writers have a responsibility. You/they can't please everyone. And the thoroughly displeased have a need to vent their frustrations and anger -- or at least I know I had such need, concerning new Star Wars, and Icheb, and Hugh. Something I loved was taken away from me in a manner I don't appreciate.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#504042
SudenKapala wrote: Trek didn't need this much updating to the current times. Or perhaps there was not, as has been said, a great need for a new Trek series; perhaps what the world is today, can't actually produce a satisfying Trek product. I don't know. (Writers and producers, if you read this, consider it a challenge. Please prove me wrong.)
I disagree with this.

Two seasons of The Orville demonstrated that high quality sci-fi with good storytelling is indeed possible today. Seth MacFarlane probably shares a lot of our collective views of 1990s-era Trek and he created a show that fits very well into the Trek paradigm of social commentary through futuristic allegory. I found it quite refreshing.

So it IS possible. Whether or not it will realistically happen is a totally different question.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#504045
Armus wrote:Two seasons of The Orville demonstrated that high quality sci-fi with good storytelling is indeed possible today. Seth MacFarlane probably shares a lot of our collective views of 1990s-era Trek and he created a show that fits very well into the Trek paradigm of social commentary through futuristic allegory. I found it quite refreshing.
This. :thumbsup:
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#504046
Nerdopolis Prime wrote:
monty42 wrote:The sufferings of a Star Trek fan - An unb...

blah blah blah

Ah I see, you opted for the mature route...

Nerdopolis Prime wrote:
monty42 wrote:
Cersan wrote:Care to ellaborate...

No.

There you go ...

I don't care to ellaborate because I don't think it's anybody's business how I decide to spend my free time.
I made this post to give my thoughts on the show, not to be psychoanalyzed on why I watch it.

If you care to challenge any of the points I made in my original post, please be my guest.
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#504047
monty42 wrote:If you care to challenge any of the points I made in my original post, please be my guest.
Why the fuck should I waste my time trying to convince you? Just go on complaining and moaning, I´ve got more important things to do. Like scratching my balls for example.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#504048
Nerdopolis Prime wrote:
monty42 wrote:If you care to challenge any of the points I made in my original post, please be my guest.
Why the fuck should I waste my time trying to convince you? Just go on complaining and moaning, I´ve got more important things to do. Like scratching my balls for example.
Well then, I wish you good fortune in your endeavour.
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By Cersan
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E Russian National Second Runner-Up 2016
#504058
Well, it was genuine question no tricks involved. You sure are sharing a lot of your though proccess and I just wondered why do you force yourself to suffer this much unless you actually like the felling.
As for subject at hand I had numerous talks about it since DSC came out. It was serious stuff with facts and quotes, and it essentually boils to this: you either like new series or you don't. Reasoning just don't work here, it is just a defence mechanism all of us have. Like "It's Star Trek and I don't like it, and I suppose to like it, because i'm a fan - there should be a rational explanation here". But the thing is with art - you can not like just because you don't like it. And then you may drop it and stop filling other heads with this nonsense.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#504060
Cersan wrote:Well, it was genuine question no tricks involved. You sure are sharing a lot of your though proccess and I just wondered why do you force yourself to suffer this much unless you actually like the felling.
As for subject at hand I had numerous talks about it since DSC came out. It was serious stuff with facts and quotes, and it essentually boils to this: you either like new series or you don't. Reasoning just don't work here, it is just a defence mechanism all of us have. Like "It's Star Trek and I don't like it, and I suppose to like it, because i'm a fan - there should be a rational explanation here". But the thing is with art - you can not like just because you don't like it. And then you may drop it and stop filling other heads with this nonsense.
I find it quite baffling that so many people here seem to entertain the idea that a negative review of something should somehow deminish their enjoyment of the same thing.

i.e. you and I are both fans of motorsports, I believe. How many times have people told "ugh it's just people running around in circles"? Which it is when you look at it from a certain standpoint. But that doesn't deminish my enjoyment of it even one bit.

People get so precious about the things they love that they're willing to blindly lash out, if somebody expresses a different opinion.

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