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Do you save the planet?

Of course! Nothing's worse than these people dying!
6
30%
Non-interference means non-interference. I can't play God!
7
35%
I call a Senior Staff Meeting to solve this Paramount Problem!
4
20%
We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I.
3
15%
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#522833
So, the Galaxy has finally recognized your genius and you are in command of a Federation Starship, which is conveniently out of direct contact range with Starfleet. You come across an M-Class planet with humanoid life and investigate it. It's a typical pre-Warp (but just barely so) society that the Prime Directive would dictate that you leave alone.

You quickly realize that a natural disaster (not the fault of any of the populace) is about to befall this planet and most, if not all, of the populace will die. However, they are sufficiently advanced that they are aware of the problem (if helpless to do anything about it) and there's no good way to save them without them at least strongly suspecting they were saved by alien interference.

So do you save them? Or stay out of it?
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#522837
Prime Directive says we don't mess with culture, and we're not messing with their culture.

Lots of weird things happen here on Earth that we can't explain, so what's one more?
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#522852
You tell me "...the Galaxy has finally recognized your genius and you are in command of a Federation Starship...", so I assume I'm a Starfleet Captain. And that means I agreed to the Prime Directive. And that means I should be who I said I was going to be. If I'm in this hypothetical, I assume I've bought in throughout my career.

Personally, if it was the me I am now, I would have spent my career arguing that the Prime Directive was fundamentally unethical, so I probably wouldn't be a captain. Assuming I was for some reason, I would resign and save them without my crew, if possible. (I assume Federation citizens aren't bound by the Prime Directive.)
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#522853
I believe in the Prime Directive of TOS, which was short, simple, to-the-point, and -- while paramount in importance -- not rigid in application:
SPOCK: Then the Prime Directive is in full force, Captain?
KIRK: No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet.
MCCOY: No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilisations.
Within those constraints, Kirk's legitimate discretion was very broad, and we saw him exercise it (for good and for ill) in "The Return of the Archons," "Bread and Circuses," "A Private Little War," "Patterns of Force," and "The Omega Glory," among others. He didn't reveal himself as a spaceman, he didn't deliberately interfere in reasonably healthy societies, but he interacted freely with natives and lent a helping hand where he could. This wasn't him flaunting the Prime Directive, as later re-interpretations have argued -- or at least the show never even suggests that Kirk is out-of-bounds. The Prime Directive, apparently, was completely okay with all the stuff he did, as long as he kept space out of it.

It is unimaginable that Kirk or his admirals would have understood the Directive to prevent him from (say) stopping a volcanic eruption from wiping out an early civilization. He would have done it, done it subtly, nobody would have detected his ship, and he would've gotten a medal for it.

The Prime Directive of "Pen Pals" / "Homeward" / "Dear Doctor" is... well, I think The Guardian put it well when he called it "fundamentally unethical." I would never consent to be ruled by it. The whole point of the Directive is to protect pre-warp civilizations. There's nothing left to protect if they're all dead!

Save the natives. #NikolaiDidNothingWrong #PhloxIsAMonster
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#522862
Barely pre-warp, you say?

Lets stay in the system and see if they can get rid of their pre-warp status, so we can help them.

In the menanwhile watch them evolve or watch them die.

Observe the natives. #NikolaiGetsExiled #PhloxMakesCareer
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#522921
The Guardian wrote:(I assume Federation citizens aren't bound by the Prime Directive.)
I would imagine there's something in Federation law disallowing anyone from interfering.

It doesn't do anyone involved any good if a Federation ship doesn't interfere with a planet only to have a Harry Mudd type go and sell them hand phasers.
Nerdopolis Prime wrote:Barely pre-warp, you say?

Lets stay in the system and see if they can get rid of their pre-warp status, so we can help them.
From what I've heard, warp capability is a major factor in whether it's okay to initiate First Contact, but not the only factor and Starfleet likes to be the one to decide such things.

Under the emergency situation, should their version of Zephram Cochrane just HAPPEN to pull off his experiment while you're waiting, you MIGHT be fine then saving them, but it's not a guarantee.
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#522925
Warp capability seems like an incredibly arbitrary barometer. You have billions years of life formation and speciation, and hundreds of millennia of civilization development. Then a couple hundred years away you say 'naw, not worth saving' - you're an asshole.

The rules of the Prime Directive seem much more in place to protect the Federation and it's citizens from engaging in a moral dilemma than the civilizations themselves.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#522928
Boffo97 wrote:
The Guardian wrote:(I assume Federation citizens aren't bound by the Prime Directive.)
I would imagine there's something in Federation law disallowing anyone from interfering.

It doesn't do anyone involved any good if a Federation ship doesn't interfere with a planet only to have a Harry Mudd type go and sell them hand phasers.
That's a solid point.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#522937
The Guardian wrote:
Boffo97 wrote:
The Guardian wrote:(I assume Federation citizens aren't bound by the Prime Directive.)
I would imagine there's something in Federation law disallowing anyone from interfering.

It doesn't do anyone involved any good if a Federation ship doesn't interfere with a planet only to have a Harry Mudd type go and sell them hand phasers.
That's a solid point.
Does sound like one, doesn't it? But:
Angel One wrote:RAMSEY: Five months in a rescue pod no bigger than this room is an eternity I hope none of you will ever have to face. When we finally made it here, we thought we'd died and gone to heaven. You've seen the women of the planet. They're tall and strong and lovely. But after the newness wore off, we started to see how the men were treated. There's no votes. There's no opinions. There's no respect.
TASHA: None of which is your concern any longer, Mister Ramsey. Call the others in, please. It's time to leave.
RAMSEY: Despite their problems, Lieutenant, we happen to like it here on Angel One. We're not going anywhere.
TROI: But Mistress Beata--
RAMSEY: Mistress Beata be damned! Her wish is not my command, and neither is yours. You can't force us to go.
DATA: Mister Ramsey is correct, Counsellor. The Odin was not a starship, which means her crew is not bound by the Prime Directive. If he and the others wish to stay here, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

[...]

TROI: Mistress Beata is willing to give you a second chance. We're prepared to take your entire group with us.
RAMSEY: That's very kind of you, but we're not going.
TASHA: Haven't you been paying attention, Ramsey? You're scheduled to be executed tomorrow.
RAMSEY: We don't want to die. We don't want to leave, either.
RIKER: There's no time to debate the issues. You're going with us whether you choose to go or not.
DATA: Excuse me, Commander, but removing any of these people against their will would be a violation of several Starfleet regulations, not the least of which would be the Prime Directive.
RIKER: I realise that, Mister Data. I'd rather face a court martial than live with the guilt of leaving these people to their deaths.
One interesting point about the second section is that, not only is the group of Federation civilians not bound by the P.D., but Data says it would actually be a violation of the Prime Directive to prevent their interference!

It seems that the sudden rigidity of the Prime Directive was a bizarre fad of the late 2360s, not part of broad Federation doctrine as recently as five years earlier.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#522939
Huh. One wonders (if one doesn't just dismiss it as a badly written episode of course) why there isn't more of what would be Prime Directive violation by civilians.

I saw something somewhere once that even the Ferengi realize that essentially selling lit firecrackers to children inside of tinderboxes is a bad idea, but there are several individuals out there who wouldn't hesitate if it could make them a credit.

Also, if interfering to fix the interference isn't allowed, Kirk really should have been court martialed over "A Piece of the Action". And so should have McCoy for leaving his communicator down there, but that's a separate topic.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#522942
I imagine that Starfleet tends to herd ships away from primitive planets. You do have to file flight plans in Federation space, after all. Of course, navigational failure and an accidental crash later and we have the problem with Angel One. I suppose a civilian could "fake" an accidental crash on a primitive world and then raise the inhabitants to treat him or her like a god. Sort of sounds like a cool story. If the crash wasn't an accident, Starfleet could scoop them up for purposefully deviating from a flight plan.

Regardless, I guess I'm back to resigning and helping the people on my own. (As for how I do that... I mean, I assume the only resources I would have would be stolen Starfleet tech, which would also get me in trouble.)
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By Cartagia
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#522982
BCSWowbagger wrote:
The Guardian wrote:
Boffo97 wrote:(I assume Federation citizens aren't bound by the Prime Directive.)
Does sound like one, doesn't it? But:
Angel One wrote:RAMSEY: Five months in a rescue pod no bigger than this room is an eternity I hope none of you will ever have to face. When we finally made it here, we thought we'd died and gone to heaven. You've seen the women of the planet. They're tall and strong and lovely. But after the newness wore off, we started to see how the men were treated. There's no votes. There's no opinions. There's no respect.
TASHA: None of which is your concern any longer, Mister Ramsey. Call the others in, please. It's time to leave.
RAMSEY: Despite their problems, Lieutenant, we happen to like it here on Angel One. We're not going anywhere.
TROI: But Mistress Beata--
RAMSEY: Mistress Beata be damned! Her wish is not my command, and neither is yours. You can't force us to go.
DATA: Mister Ramsey is correct, Counsellor. The Odin was not a starship, which means her crew is not bound by the Prime Directive. If he and the others wish to stay here, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

[...]

TROI: Mistress Beata is willing to give you a second chance. We're prepared to take your entire group with us.
RAMSEY: That's very kind of you, but we're not going.
TASHA: Haven't you been paying attention, Ramsey? You're scheduled to be executed tomorrow.
RAMSEY: We don't want to die. We don't want to leave, either.
RIKER: There's no time to debate the issues. You're going with us whether you choose to go or not.
DATA: Excuse me, Commander, but removing any of these people against their will would be a violation of several Starfleet regulations, not the least of which would be the Prime Directive.
RIKER: I realise that, Mister Data. I'd rather face a court martial than live with the guilt of leaving these people to their deaths.
One interesting point about the second section is that, not only is the group of Federation civilians not bound by the P.D., but Data says it would actually be a violation of the Prime Directive to prevent their interference!

It seems that the sudden rigidity of the Prime Directive was a bizarre fad of the late 2360s, not part of broad Federation doctrine as recently as five years earlier.
Be careful not to conflate Starfleet with the Federation, though. It's Starfleet specifically that is bound by the Prime Directive, not the Federation - why it's called Starfleet General Order 1. Being in the Federation does not make you a member of Starfleet.

EDITED to include a relevant passage from Memory Alpha:

Some commentators have noted that Nikolai Rozhenko was not a member of Starfleet and so as a mere Federation citizen the Prime Directive should not have applied to his actions. However, Picard's log stated that Nikolai had "been stationed on the planet as a cultural observer." If Starfleet was the unnamed organization who had stationed him there, the implication would be that civilians working for Starfleet would also need to follow the Prime Directive. This would explain why Rozhenko, who went to great lengths to argue against the application of the Prime Directive, never raised his civilian status as a rationale for his actions. Regardless, Picard was in control of his ship's resources and their use, and he was within his rights to prevent their use if he believed that doing so was in contravention of the Prime Directive. The two other actions that interfered with the society – fathering a child (who would have, to the Boraalians, internal alien characteristics) and remaining to live with them without a memory wipe – may have been permitted actions of a citizen as these were not raised by anyone as Prime Directive violations. Regardless, Rozhenko was seemingly not to be prosecuted for his actions, whether due to his civilian status or other unspecified reasons.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#522994
Reading the MemAlpha article convinces me that there's actually two Prime Directives:

1. Doing the obvious thing makes the episode too short, so the Prime Directive says you can't do that and you have to find a different solution that takes 44 minutes.

2. The episode doesn't have enough drama, so the Prime Directive says "you'll get in trouble for doing the right thing", thus adding conflict while some crew member or another chooses to do it anyway for The Right Reasons.

Unspoken 3: just like replicators, transporters, and holodecks, the Prime Directive will do whatever the plot demands, and if we have enough plot already we'll either never mention it or handwave that there's a loophole that says we don't have to talk about it this week.
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