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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#539347
This thread turned into a kinda sorta discussion on it. I really liked it. It's my favorite of the streaming era Trek TV shows.

And along with The Orville, my pick for current most faithful to Trek shows out there.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
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2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#539551
Boffo97 wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:20 amI really liked it. It's my favorite of the streaming era Trek TV shows.
I agree. The live action ones can sometimes get bogged down in the plot and saving all the answers for the final episode of the season, making some threads go on longer than they should and some end kind of abruptly. By comparison, I can watch any of Lower Decks in isolation and be entertained. I definitely think there's a way to do both, but I would rate all the series well.
Boffo97 wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:20 amAnd along with The Orville, my pick for current most faithful to Trek shows out there.
Aaaaand you lost me.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#541485
I quickly skimmed the above few posts when they were made. Not having seen much yet of ST:LDS -- only the first ep, to be frank; and months ago -- I found the comments really... strange. :lol:
The first ep (again, seen before reading anything here), I found quite bad, in various ways. Too noisy, too chaotic, waaaaay to fast (y'all know me... s l o w - - d o e s - - i t), did I mention too loud and chaotic?

But I have come trust the sanity of the people who made them (not Q of course -- the other two. :lol: :borg: :cheersR: ), so I kept their sentiments in the back of my mind.

Maybe it helped? Having rewatched the pilot a few days ago -- and not really changing my opinion all that much -- I've landed at 5 or 6 now. And right from the start of ep 2, it got off the ground for me! :D And now I see, or at least feel myself, where the above ideas are coming from.
Really enjoying it. :) :thumbsup:

(And to "honour" it ( :P ) I chose a temporary new avatar -- Hugh, of course; but now, in a sort of animation art depiction.)
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#541496
SudenKapala wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:27 pmHaving rewatched the pilot a few days ago -- and not really changing my opinion all that much -- I've landed at 5 or 6 now. And right from the start of ep 2, it got off the ground for me! :D And now I see, or at least feel myself, where the above ideas are coming from.
Really enjoying it. :) :thumbsup:
Forgive me as I ruminate on pilots for a second. I didn't mean for this response to go this long. Please, tell me if you guys disagree. Intelligent people can disagree.

It's funny how hard it is to make a good pilot. You have to introduce the main characters, establish the interpersonal relationships that will be key to the workings of the show, have a plot that's not too big as to take up all of the time, but not so simple as to feel like the characters are going to sleepwalk through the episodes, and, in modern TV, usually include the beginnings of an ongoing mystery that will unfold through the season or series. Dialogue has to be snappy but true to the characters to get this all done. In a half hour (22 minutes on broadcast), it's even harder to do that. Something is usually put on the back burner and just hinted at and that always drives fans crazy.

For example, I've been watching WandaVision and I told my wife the first three episodes should have dropped the first week. The common complaint I've heard is that if the show were not a Marvel show where we already knew the characters and had a feeling what was going on, would we have watched more than the pilot? Spoilers:
i.e. Would the "help him" choking scene be enough to keep your interest?
Probably not. It's a slow burn.

I also recently saw the pilot for Mr. Mayor with Ted Danson on Peacock. It seemed fine. I like the actors involved. I wasn't hooked. And despite my general rule to give a show a few episodes, I haven't gotten back to it after a few weeks. Still, I think I will as I have the feeling that an unfortunate amount of real estate was needed to establish the backstory of the two main characters and later episodes are going to be more formulaic. I might even get hooked.

The big takeaway, pilots are hard.

What Trek show had the best pilot? For my money, DS9. (They also had an hour and a half runtime.) Voyager didn't get into the weeds of how the ship worked for the next few weeks. TNG kind of let characters wait to take their place in the spotlight. Enterprise wasn't bad as far as pilots go. "The Cage" is actually an amazing pilot. If the first two episodes of Discovery were their pilot (released together and comparable to other Trek pilots in length), I would argue they did a good job, even if the potential was not fully paid off. Honestly, to feel like an honest to god pilot, I think you'd have to include the third episode, which I think is kind of my point.

I made a dismissive comment about The Orville earlier (I don't care or mind if anyone else likes it; I just don't want anyone to think I'm insulting them), but I could still argue that it has a great pilot. It sets up the characters (I hate them), it sets up the villain (which I think are cartoonish), and it shows how a general episode will go (the day is saved not because of the crew, but because of a deus ex machina - this episode isn't the best example of this in the first season, but it still is one). People liking this episode know exactly what they're getting from here on out. People who didn't like it know that too and can tune out. I still watched the first season, because people told me how great it was, but the only episode I liked was the last one, which still had a deus ex machina ending, but made sense given the message that reason outlasts irrationality, the first true Trek-like message in the series. (I wish luck to those that have enjoyed it. I did promise someone to watch season 2 some time - just like my general rule to give a show a few episodes, I also understand a series can grow into itself - but I'm in no rush.)
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#541516
You ask if we agree. With what? I think you convinced me that pilots are maybe hard to produce (you make some good points), and that may be the problem of LDS ep 1. Yes.
I guess I'm just used to either really good pilots, or really enjoying all the newness and thus loving even some mediocre pilots.
Perhaps I expect (too) much (more) from ST pilots.

About the other ST pilots? Smileys are for ranking.
Yes, Emissary (DS9) is by far my favourite. :D Caretaker (VOY) is awesome as well. :) Farpoint (TNG) was good. 8) Broken Bow (ENT) was very hit and miss for me. :? Loved parts, hated others. 'Meh' as a whole; disappointing as a pilot. First eps of DIS... feels like there is no pilot. Weird for ST, but no need for a "pilot structure" (as in: prologue story) in what turned out to be the narrative pace and structure for that series. Certainly not bad at all. 8) Better than ENT.

So, both the beginnings for LDS :( and DIS for me are gonna rank below Caretaker; not sure yet, where exactly. Ask me in 6 years or so. :P
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#541518
Personally, I left the pilot wondering if I liked this or not. So I kind of agree with you on this score.

I left the season feeling like this was the best of the streaming era Trek series.
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 - Delta Quadrant
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#542181
I've finally been able to see the complete season now that they added it to Amazon Prime here in NL a week or so ago.

I must say that I quite enjoyed it! I wasn't too swayed by the first episode, but it really picked up and I loved it from the second episode onwards. Nice combination of heart, humor, and excitement. I absolutely loved the final episode. Too bad it only had 10 episodes, looking forward to a new season.
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 - Delta Quadrant
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#542190
The Orville and Lower Decks have a heart, true. They have a wink for the fans. No extensive special effects and trek sense bending like picard or discovery. just trek. I really like lower decks.

I am Landru. Kill the intruders!

Shut up or I will paradox you...

Landru apologizes...

:)
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#545274
Finally got around to getting P+ and watched Lower decks (will slow burn D3 later). Loved it. Got a little annoyed by the West Wing, Gilmore girls fast talking (he had to talk so fast you couldn't even tell it was John De Lancie) but other than that no complaints.

I enjoyed the "let's discuss the underside of all things trek universe".

What is somethingin the trek universe that makes you stop and go "but I wonder how" or "but that would mean"???

Mine is: we know that holosuites exist for sexual gratification. But does that mean that "Holo-porn-model as a career is also a thing?" And if so but that would mean they would "know" that untold countless ppl have sexual relations "with them".

:shifty: :neutral: :( :? :? :? 8) :? :neutral:
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