For other non-gameplay topics, especially those related to Star Trek and the Star Trek CCG, non-gameplay surveys, trivia questions and puzzles, constructive commentary and more.
 
By sevencrdspud (Jason Beyer)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#546273
People make dream cards all the time. Wizards is just monetizing theirs.

My take:

Players don't have to buy these cards OR play them. At all. Ever.

In fact, if they DONT buy them because they view them as a money grab, Wizards won't make them. But The Walking Dead Secret Layer was a best seller so...?

Love it or hate it, for people who enjoy Magic (hand raised) these are great. And I own none of them.

It's along the same vein as all the new Star Trek stuff that everyone "hates" (or loves to hate). It's a blessing that these new shows and movies help prevent the aspect of what one fan may love about Star Trek from falling into obscurity.

Let MtG crank out Secret Layer "The Golden Girls," "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" (Regis Philbin, Legendary Wizard Human anyone?!), or "CHiPs." So long as I can free-roll me some MtG Arena, it's all good. :D :cheersL:
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#546300
sevencrdspud wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:03 am Players don't have to buy these cards OR play them. At all. Ever.
And I think that's actually the problem WotC is facing - their premiere "treadmill" format of Standard is in decline (IMO because everytime they pooch their game balance so bad that people take a break, it reminds players how expensive running the Standard treadmill actually is and why not doing something else instead?), and Commander and other legacy formats have the same problem we have - you only need a handful of cards from the new set, so why buy boxes of it when you can just go to one of the many retailers and buy the singles?

Right now they're riding the FOMO wave of Secret Lairs, but given how fast they're cranking those puppies out (I believe I heard 2020 averaged one new drop per *week*!), eventually players will get tired of those too.

It's a shame - they've laser-focused on the whales who will drop 30-40 bucks for five basic lands with cool pictures, that they forget that folks like me were happily dropping 60-100 bucks to get some boosters to play with the fam (or grab a set of commander decks). I think I've skipped the last... two sets entirely now? Possibly more.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546362
sevencrdspud wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:03 am Players don't have to buy these cards OR play them. At all. Ever.
thats kind of ignorant and the same reason people are obese and do drugs or buy an iphone.
its proven at this point a consumer can be manipulated into buying everything. its not a conscious decision.

meanwhile those impulse buyer destroy everything the old school players loved about the game.
and if u want to play competitive u need those cards.

im playing the game for 25 years not and sunk a lot of money into it. id probalby continued to do so for another 25yrs if they didnt destroy the game for the short term revenue. and i had more money available than before.
but thats just how capitalism works these days. in the end everything will be in ruins exept for a few wealthy guys. but thats a topic for quarks bar.

buying singles in the end is the same as buying packs btw. you just payed someone else to open them for you and keep the other cards.
 
By sevencrdspud (Jason Beyer)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#546377
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:31 pm
sevencrdspud wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:03 am Players don't have to buy these cards OR play them. At all. Ever.
thats kind of ignorant and the same reason people are obese and do drugs or buy an iphone.
its proven at this point a consumer can be manipulated into buying everything. its not a conscious decision.

meanwhile those impulse buyer destroy everything the old school players loved about the game.
and if u want to play competitive u need those cards.

im playing the game for 25 years not and sunk a lot of money into it. id probalby continued to do so for another 25yrs if they didnt destroy the game for the short term revenue. and i had more money available than before.
but thats just how capitalism works these days. in the end everything will be in ruins exept for a few wealthy guys. but thats a topic for quarks bar.

buying singles in the end is the same as buying packs btw. you just payed someone else to open them for you and keep the other cards.
1. People who damage themselves by becoming obese and doing drugs have many outside factors to become that way. I don't feel this argument tracks.

2. If people want to purchase something because they see value in it, aka a new iPhone, it's their business. Who are we to police that?

3. There are impulse buyers, yes. And there are also completionists. BUT the market is saying that LOTS of people want these products. One person's (or a group of persons) feelings on a product can't negate proven sales data.

4. Show me a competitive deck that uses any of The Walking Dead or My Little Pony cards. I'll wait. Godzilla holds no water because those are just reskins of cards that are readily available.

5. I can very much relate to spending much time and money on a hobby. We both play CCGs after all. If anything, as I mentioned before, these products only serve to keep relevant the hobby you like. This is an opportunity to relate to people getting into Magic for the first time. "Old timers" should relish in that if they truly enjoy the game.

6. Businesses are not churches. They are in the business of making money. As I mentioned earlier, the free market determines just how successful they are doing with their products. Wizards seems to be doing pretty darn well.

Jason
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546379
1. drugs might be a peergroup thing, but food is designed to make you addicted these days. and tcgs and games in general are pretty close to gambling addiction.

2. every sane person must admit there is no use in a new phone if the old is still working and pretty much the same. its not the 90s anymore where hardware is obsolete the moment you purchase it.

3. the mass market is more proftiable than niche markets, yes. but do you justify the destruction of all niches for the profit? I mean the same happened to Trek. see 6.

4. obv almost nobody uses it in paper, because its not available, but rick gets played in vintage humans https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=36251&iddeck=331307
its also not an argument, because the upcoming sets will be crossIP only and mtg lore will be abandonded completely. You cant play and ignore that.

5.i dont want popsongs on my metal concert and i dont want little ponies at my magic table.

6. im a consumer, not a stockholder, so i care about my end of the stick and so should you. btw this morals lead to exploitation of the working class for decades. only a fool is a slave and speak on its masters behalf
 
By sevencrdspud (Jason Beyer)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#546384
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:11 pm 1. drugs might be a peergroup thing, but food is designed to make you addicted these days. and tcgs and games in general are pretty close to gambling addiction.

2. every sane person must admit there is no use in a new phone if the old is still working and pretty much the same. its not the 90s anymore where hardware is obsolete the moment you purchase it.

3. the mass market is more proftiable than niche markets, yes. but do you justify the destruction of all niches for the profit? I mean the same happened to Trek. see 6.

4. obv almost nobody uses it in paper, because its not available, but rick gets played in vintage humans https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=36251&iddeck=331307
its also not an argument, because the upcoming sets will be crossIP only and mtg lore will be abandonded completely. You cant play and ignore that.

5.i dont want popsongs on my metal concert and i dont want little ponies at my magic table.

6. im a consumer, not a stockholder, so i care about my end of the stick and so should you. btw this morals lead to exploitation of the working class for decades. only a fool is a slave and speak on its masters behalf
I feel we're at a point where we just need to agree to disagree.

From how I see it, everything we are debating is but a want.

Nobody is entitled to play Magic. Or Star Trek. How I decide to engage with either may differ from how you decide to. How you feel about either is how you feel, and you are certainly entitled to those feelings and beliefs. The same rings true for myself.

The only things that are truly universal to everyone are Death and Taxes... :shifty:

Until we meet on the (probably virtual) field of battle,

Jason
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546387
nobody is entitled to have any hobbies, thats a pretty deconstructive view on things.

so all i should care about in life is food, shelter and reproduction. but wait, capitalism demands nobody is even entitled to that.

why are u even here then?
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#546389
Oh my word, EnsignQ. You are being such a jerk. Dismissive of other people, gatekeeping. Why? Are you okay?

-crp
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546390
MidnightLich wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:03 pm Oh my word, EnsignQ. You are being such a jerk. Dismissive of other people, gatekeeping. Why? Are you okay?

-crp
i dont understand what u mean. i dont even know what gatekeeping is or how it applies to this topic.

getting told im not entitled to the things i care about is dismissive

im also not challenging the loving and caring family member jason might be, but the corposuit jason he is representing in his postings.
you guys should know the difference
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#546893
For me the sense of immersion in MTG took a hit with Planeswalker cards of all things. I rather liked the idea of two duelists sitting down to a contest with cards to represent their magic by proxy. But now you're telling me this other card here is like another duelist sitting hunched over on the carpet? But... it's cardboard, as far as I know. A weird thing to get hung up about, perhaps, but it was weird!

Haven't been keeping much tabs on the game as of late, though the use of other IPs also feels strange. Some kind of barrier made thin or broken down. That said I'm curious about what they've cooked up.
AllenGould wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:09 pmIt's a shame - they've laser-focused on the whales who will drop 30-40 bucks for five basic lands with cool pictures, that they forget that folks like me were happily dropping 60-100 bucks to get some boosters to play with the fam (or grab a set of commander decks).
I just remember getting a real itch some years ago to have an actual MTG deck after being completely excited about Animar and its "free report salad" in Commander--then backing away after acknowledging even if I jettisoned the more expensive cards initially, eventually I'd want to try optimizing things anyway.

Pretty sure my next attempt, if it ever happens, would be some kind of janky, constructed 15-card deck type of deal with other peculiar rules involved--just enough to enjoy a "hero" card or two without MTG making off with my budget lol.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546932
magic has gone a long way from the immersive "wizards are reading spells from their spellbooks" to fight each other to a generic game system.

it started with the new frame. planeswalker totally ruined even the game system. then they cleaned up the last remains of flavor with mana burn.

as said its only logical to go the next step and abandon the (weak) lore of mtg completely now.
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