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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#547441
monty42 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:21 pm
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:01 am im surprised, but not surprised First Contact is so highly ranked here. I can understand why it appeals to the average cinema goer, but in a die hard trek community it feels kinda off.
Well to each their own. I guess everybody has a different interpretation of what "the die hard trek community" looks like.

However I think it's quite an amusing rope-a-dope that your using the terminology die hard trek community when that is the very thing you're critizising about the out-of-character Picard. :thumbsup:
well, for some reason most trekfans of old dont like discovery, why is that?
or what did they like about the old stuff?
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By grandar
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#547452
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:43 pm
monty42 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:21 pm
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:01 am im surprised, but not surprised First Contact is so highly ranked here. I can understand why it appeals to the average cinema goer, but in a die hard trek community it feels kinda off.
Well to each their own. I guess everybody has a different interpretation of what "the die hard trek community" looks like.

However I think it's quite an amusing rope-a-dope that your using the terminology die hard trek community when that is the very thing you're critizising about the out-of-character Picard. :thumbsup:
well, for some reason most trekfans of old dont like discovery, why is that?
or what did they like about the old stuff?
I'm not really surprised at all. The list as presented tracks pretty well in my group of "die hard" trekkers of old. For me personally, I'd put Nemesis higher, but my opinions on movies run counter to mainstream preferences, so it's anecdotal.

Discovery is fine. It has it's flaws, but when it's at its best, I'd put it with Voyager (which is 3rd on MY tier list of trek shows) in terms of quality. It's got some fun world building that doesn't detract from established lore. You can completely ignore it.

At the end of the day, everybody is their own definition of "die hard", and it's great when our preferences align. No big deal when they don't. :cheersL:
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
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#547462
Honestly, I think Discovery's smartest thing was going forward - CBS seems to have forgotten that you don't have to name-check TOS at every. freakin. opportunity.

Even most of Discovery's plot I think would have been served better if they'd jettisoned the "Spock's sister" angle and just set it in modern times (or a few years down the line). Then you don't have to constantly retcon to explain how Starfleet had teleporting ships and somehow the Borg and the Dominion War (or Voyager!) never prompted anyone to go "hey, you know we've got the plans for teleporting starships, right?"
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By grandar
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#547474
AllenGould wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:51 pm Honestly, I think Discovery's smartest thing was going forward - CBS seems to have forgotten that you don't have to name-check TOS at every. freakin. opportunity.

Even most of Discovery's plot I think would have been served better if they'd jettisoned the "Spock's sister" angle and just set it in modern times (or a few years down the line). Then you don't have to constantly retcon to explain how Starfleet had teleporting ships and somehow the Borg and the Dominion War (or Voyager!) never prompted anyone to go "hey, you know we've got the plans for teleporting starships, right?"
Yeah, Season 3 was when I finally decided to give it a try. And outside of a few confounding plot points, I feel like it was the "best" season. As a standalone, I enjoyed the back half of S2, but having to write the Discovery out of existence was a stretch.

Set in the present timeline, the spore drive could have been an advancement in bio-neural tech, or a revisit of nucleogenic tech.

Honestly the plots for S1 and S2, could have been condensed into TV movies, with S3 carrying the torch from there.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#547479
grandar wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:23 pm Yeah, Season 3 was when I finally decided to give it a try. And outside of a few confounding plot points, I feel like it was the "best" season. As a standalone, I enjoyed the back half of S2, but having to write the Discovery out of existence was a stretch.
Haven't seen S3 yet, but I did enjoy S1 and S2. The trick was that the parts I liked weren't the call-backs, but the actors. (Even the Pike/Enterprise plot, which is *really* good, is carried by the actors more than the writing.)

It's just a problem with prequels (and particularly nostalgia mining), IMO.
Set in the present timeline, the spore drive could have been an advancement in bio-neural tech, or a revisit of nucleogenic tech.
Heck, you don't have to change it at all. Hell, Discovery itself doesn't look that out of place in a post-DS9 world.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#547515
I quickly bypassed the Disco remarks, since I've only still seen s1. Rewatching it currently, though, and planning to start s2 & s3 after. I'm enjoying the 2nd viewing even more that the first; it has its flaws (but so does all Trek) but still is quite nice. I like it.
Boffo97 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:04 pm
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:30 am series picard wouldve never went full combat mode either. that was just not him. it was worf dressed as picard.
The episode Starship Mine says hello.
Yes. :thumbsup: And even more so, IMO, it is (paradoxally) hinted at in Family. That reminds me I still had a draft on this, written this afternoon on my phone:

i do feel that Family's last few minutes -- which are an awesome reveal and character moment for JLP; and absolutely a foreshadowing of his eventual going Yipee Kay Yay on the Borg.
In Family, we learn that he has this festering trauma inside. (and we might think he has worked through it,m in the mud with his bro -- but obvs, that's a mistake.) He lets it out (again) in FC; not at the first opportunity (he had ample unrelated targets to open his chest for and shoot his heart upon, between BOBW and that film), but either A) when he can't hold it in any longer, and/or B) when the actual, deserving, related target presents itself again -- the Borg themselves. Pick one. For me, I like either explanation.
And I love how a total bystander (Lily Sloane), not having any particular allegiance or reverance for JLP, tells him he should get with the program, not be stupid, and evacuate. She is right, he is wrong. Nobody else would probably have dared; or, even, thought themselves he was wrong; but he was obsessed and it took an outsider to realise it and/or be able to penetrate his defenses.
So his going McLane was 'out of (his) character'... it was a diseased part of him, a trauma. :twocents:

the queen... yes controversial, but i fall on the side that actually liked seeing more intricate mythology on the Borg. It has it's drawbacks in VOY (because they must get weaker to remain in view, lest they'd best V'ger straight away), but still they get more interesting in various ways (for me), because their mythos is added to (their obsession with 010, Unimatrix zero, marika+p'chan+lansor, the Borg kids, Icheb's parents, Arturis...).
I can certainly understand that isn't for everybody, though. By necessity, they had to get weaker in relation to "our heroes", to be able to be interacted with more. And that took away another part of their appeal -- their terrible power and mystery. But I loved it, personally -- and I loved the first steps that FC took in that direction.
Boffo97 wrote:NOW I HAVE
A PHASER RIFLE
HO-HO-HO
Yes. :thumbsup:
Also: I'm a die harder fan than all of youse together. 8)
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