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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548319
is there any rule in play that punishes slow play / stalling?

i had several games now, where my opponent used massively more time to maneuver their deck compared to me.

(playing excessive big decks or trying to figure how the deck functions)

i dont think thats fair. yesterday i had a match where it took (us) 50! minutes to set up the table and finish the first players round ( i went second)
suffice to say, the game went into turns with me failing to get the fw.
meanwhile in the third round the game was decided after 55min.

that said, learning the game at a tournament level is not fair at all. for no one participating.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#548331
It is a no-consequence tournament on a saturaday in a game that people keep alive for fun.

If you are that concerned about a victory point...
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By Mr.Sloan
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548334
if he has more options or is more carefull with his actions, he is simply a more experienced player / has a better deck.

if he does meaningless actions, like beaming up and down the same personal for no reason its stalling. i havn´t seen anyone done meaningless actions in 20 years. complaining about others playing is just complaining.

If someone is new and does not know the game that well thats a new player we love to have added to our small player base.
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By Mr.Sloan
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548335
being 2nd is a disadvantage in my opionion (see thread of sebel / caretaker).

Having an option to learn the basics of 1e and their decks before entering a tournament is possible, i did it for 3 people and still offering it.
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Director of Organized Play
By LORE (Kris Sonsteby)
 - Director of Organized Play
 -  
Architect
1E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
2E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
W.C.T. Chairman's Trophy winner 2014-2015
#548337
At a Championship level tournament, we would hope all participants are well versed in both the game and in the inner workings of their specific deck. At a local (such as the one Jon mentions) we generally expect people are new to the game, trying new ideas, and / or chasing achievements. If that upsets you, I apologize. But that said, if you are looking for cut throat matches in every tournament you participate in, then perhaps this is the wrong game for you.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548338
pfti wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:25 am It is a no-consequence tournament on a saturaday in a game that people keep alive for fun.

If you are that concerned about a victory point...
you mean the exact kind of tournament that was the main argument for banning surak?
besides the question wasnt about that tourny.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548364
LORE wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:29 am At a Championship level tournament, we would hope all participants are well versed in both the game and in the inner workings of their specific deck. At a local (such as the one Jon mentions) we generally expect people are new to the game, trying new ideas, and / or chasing achievements. If that upsets you, I apologize. But that said, if you are looking for cut throat matches in every tournament you participate in, then perhaps this is the wrong game for you.
its not about cutthroat matches, its about having a good time and actually playing the game. im a somewhat new player myself and have no issues to explain how my cards work, but i would expect my opponent read her cards before a tournament.
i think there are many options to playtest without time restrictions. i offered it multiple times to the player in question to teach them the basics. if someone just wants to look at their cards and rp them or whatever its fine, but please not at my cost.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548366
Mr.Sloan wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:26 am
if he does meaningless actions, like beaming up and down the same personal for no reason its stalling. i havn´t seen anyone done meaningless actions in 20 years. complaining about others playing is just complaining.
it was no actions at all. it was silence for 20min. then eventually passing the turn
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First Edition Creative Manager
By KazonPADD (Paddy Tye)
 - First Edition Creative Manager
 -  
1E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
#548367
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:35 pm
Mr.Sloan wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:26 am
if he does meaningless actions, like beaming up and down the same personal for no reason its stalling. i havn´t seen anyone done meaningless actions in 20 years. complaining about others playing is just complaining.
it was no actions at all. it was silence for 20min. then eventually passing the turn
If nothing happened (ie opponent away), pause the clock
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By Marquetry
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#548374
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:25 pm
LORE wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:29 am At a Championship level tournament, we would hope all participants are well versed in both the game and in the inner workings of their specific deck. At a local (such as the one Jon mentions) we generally expect people are new to the game, trying new ideas, and / or chasing achievements. If that upsets you, I apologize. But that said, if you are looking for cut throat matches in every tournament you participate in, then perhaps this is the wrong game for you.
its not about cutthroat matches, its about having a good time and actually playing the game. im a somewhat new player myself and have no issues to explain how my cards work, but i would expect my opponent read her cards before a tournament.
i think there are many options to playtest without time restrictions. i offered it multiple times to the player in question to teach them the basics. if someone just wants to look at their cards and rp them or whatever its fine, but please not at my cost.
Keep in mind this goes BOTH ways
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548375
Marquetry wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:08 pm

Keep in mind this goes BOTH ways
what do u mean?

anyway what i get from this, there is no ruleset that enforces common ground, so everybody can behave like they want, even if it sabotages the match. unintentionally or otherwise.
User avatar
Director of Organized Play
By LORE (Kris Sonsteby)
 - Director of Organized Play
 -  
Architect
1E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
2E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
W.C.T. Chairman's Trophy winner 2014-2015
#548385
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:10 pm anyway what i get from this, there is no ruleset that enforces common ground, so everybody can behave like they want, even if it sabotages the match. unintentionally or otherwise.
Absolutely not, all tournament games are subject to the Organized Play Guide's tournament Code of Conduct. Slow play is considered a minor infraction and is on the T.D.'s to enforce.

That being said, much of what I am hearing about your own in-game behavior can be construed as Misconduct - either Major or Severe. So, let this be your official warning Ensign Q - tone it down, dude. Unless you want to get hit with penalties up to and including game losses through outright being banned from tournament play.
User avatar
 
By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548386
LORE wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:16 pm
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:10 pm anyway what i get from this, there is no ruleset that enforces common ground, so everybody can behave like they want, even if it sabotages the match. unintentionally or otherwise.
Absolutely not, all tournament games are subject to the Organized Play Guide's tournament Code of Conduct. Slow play is considered a minor infraction and is on the T.D.'s to enforce.

That being said, much of what I am hearing about your own in-game behavior can be construed as Misconduct - either Major or Severe. So, let this be your official warning Ensign Q - tone it down, dude. Unless you want to get hit with penalties up to and including game losses through outright being banned from tournament play.
im open to feedback. i was often unsatisfied with my own game performance. like not reading cards carefully or misplaying. id totally be fine with a game loss here and there. i totally deserved a game loss against mvb, trying to report multiple [1E-AU] from temporal counduit multiple turns. i dont see why i should get banned though.
its problematic when there is no set rules and everything is subjective though.
like for what do i get a warning?
User avatar
 
By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548395
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:21 pmlike for what do i get a warning?
If I'd have to answer that (but luckily, I don't have to): for calling me out for "stalling", "bad sportsmanship", and an "idiot". And, for me the worst, opining that I am not fit to play in tournaments. But that's just me. :x

You might not feel bad when someone writes/says such things about/to you (and I envy you for it!), but some people do. You (should?) know this. We've talked about it at length.

Full disclosure: yes, this is about me. I'm That Player. (Not the one with the big deck; but the slow one.)

And I wrote a much longer post this morning, trying to react to it all.
I've thought long about whether to post that (and am still thinking about it).

But then, the things below were stated, too. And half the day, I was feeling quite bad about it all.

Am I that slow, and thus so annoying? Really?
it was no actions at all. it was silence for 20min. then eventually passing the turn
No actions might be true. But it can't, ever, have been 20'. At all.
i offered it multiple times to the player in question to teach them the basics.
True. And I was looking forward to it (we were even planning types of games/decks) -- after my event season. As I told you!
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:08 pm i dont think they were gone, they were reading their cards
Indeed, I wasn't gone. (Of course not.) But I'll not have been silent for anything near 20'. (I'm incapable of that.) My longest turn can't have taken longer than--
you know what, I'm going to analyse our game log. I wanna know for sure.

I hope think I did this correctly... (Unwilling to triple-check. I feel bad enough as it is.)

Total seed time: 35'. That might have been "all on me", I don't know. During seeding (but NOT during a turn), I might've been silent for 20'... maybe. Raise your hand if that never happened to you?

(And yes, BTW, I was having an especially off day.)

Total difference: Suden is a whoping 22' slower than Q, in a game with 1h29' of turn time.
Which means, Q took 38% of game time, and Suden took 62%.

Longest turn (Suden's) took 15'. (Q's longest turn took 9'.)
Shortest turns: slightly under 2' (Q) and slightly over 4' (S).

Q was a lot faster in all respects! Surprise!

Make up your own minds, about whether Q's complaint is a valid one.
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