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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Retired Moderator
#554745
Nerd rant incoming.

So, one of the ideas with Voyager is that because the ship is so far outside Federation space, Janeway has instituted a rationing system on the replicators to save energy and thus many crewmen eat Neelix-prepared meals in the Mess Hall.

This sounds logical, except why don't see similar limits on the Holodeck or a complete ban on its use (which would also make sense considering how many "Holodeck run amok" episodes we've seen, but I digress)? It's been a while since I've seen Encounter at Farpoint, but from what I remember, even if we assume holograms take very little energy to project, inanimate matter is replicated, hence why it can leave the holodeck without immediately disappearing as Jean-Luc once discovered thanks to Wesley.

Therefore, we can presume that Tom Paris' beach program probably takes the resources that could instead replicate a sizable portion of the crew a nice Filet Mignon dinner.

(Stupid Tom. Everything is his fault.)

They could have written around this though. In typical low energy conditions, have Voyager institute the replication rationing (except for special cases like Lon Suder) and bar holodeck use. Then when Janeway manages to find compatible technology and top off Voyager's tanks as it were, then lift the rations (you could even say most still eat in the mess because they like the camaraderie and perhaps even the food) and allow holodeck usage. Then your Holodeck episodes can still happen.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Moderator
#554746
Yes, but that would have taken actual planning and timing and not just allowed them to stick episodes wherever they thought would best work with sweeps months as opposed to other times.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
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2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#554749
They tried to cover this,
a cursory google search wrote:In the episode Parallax, there was even a time when Janeway suggests trying to use the holodeck to provide additional power, which Kim shoots down as not possible due to a system incompatibility;

JANEWAY: What about alternative energy sources? Ensign Kim, have you had any luck getting power from the holodeck reactors?

KIM: Not yet. We tried hooking them to the power grid and we ended up blowing out half the relays. The holodeck's energy matrix, it just isn't compatible with the other power systems.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#554750
edit: I see Jon beat me to the short version :)

It gets worse - Voyager actually gives us an in-canon explanation, but the explanation is *amazingly* stupid.

The explanation is that the holodecks have their own independent power source, separate from the rest of the ship, and that power source is incompatible with the rest of Voyager's systems.

Now, from a production POV they pretty much admitted "we want to have holodeck episodes so please enjoy this decorative lampshade".

But from an in-universe POV this means that Starfleet decided:

1. That holodecks - not life support or weapons or propulsion or communications or transporters, but *holodecks* - were so mission critical that they needed an independent power supply to guarantee up-time.

2. That this power supply - and indeed, the entire power system - will incompatible with all the other systems on the ship, and can't be used to power any of those other systems. Given they never think to syphon the fuel out to power replicators, that means it's using a completely different fuel source.

3. Don't forget that the holodeck never runs out of fuel on the entire seven-year voyage. Which means they either:

a. packed enough holodeck fuel for a seven year voyage, but not enough fuel for other purposes (aka "I went camping and brought beer but not blankets")

b. fuel for the holodeck reactors is so plentiful that restocking is easy enough to not be mentioned - in which case, why aren't they using these reactors for other purposes?

c. these reactors are so fuel-efficient that you can run the holodeck for seven years on one tank. (Again, and we don't pack one of these for life support why?)
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Retired Moderator
#554751
Okay then, why not make a DS9 Replimat out of one of the Holodecks? It should still result in replicated food just as good as the replicators can do but using the Holodeck power systems.

You might even be able to beam it off the Holodeck to someone's personal replicator, but I don't know how much energy that would use.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#554753
Boffo97 wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 4:55 pm Okay then, why not make a DS9 Replimat out of one of the Holodecks? It should still result in replicated food just as good as the replicators can do but using the Holodeck power systems.
Better yet - why isn't there holo emitters in the mess hall itself? Or in the crew quarters. If you have an infinite amount of power, why wouldn't you use that to give everyone really cool life support?
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#554757
Thing is the supply issue went away as time went on. After the first few seasons they didn't have problems unless they needed a critical time. They were able to get the replicators up and running. It was only a problem when they were badly damaged and could not easily get things up an running without some form of support.

Space is big but there still is a lot of stuff, stuff that can be converted to energy for replicators.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Moderator
#554758
Like I said: it's just more flexibility as to what does or doesn't air during sweeps.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Retired Moderator
#554759
Faithful Reader wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 6:13 pm Thing is the supply issue went away as time went on. After the first few seasons they didn't have problems unless they needed a critical time. They were able to get the replicators up and running. It was only a problem when they were badly damaged and could not easily get things up an running without some form of support.
So kind of like the Starfleet vs. Maquis tension which also quickly went away.
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#554761
Boffo97 wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 6:59 pm
Faithful Reader wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 6:13 pm Thing is the supply issue went away as time went on. After the first few seasons they didn't have problems unless they needed a critical time. They were able to get the replicators up and running. It was only a problem when they were badly damaged and could not easily get things up an running without some form of support.
So kind of like the Starfleet vs. Maquis tension which also quickly went away.
Or remembering the correct number of casualties.

Or focusing on someone not a regular.

They had a lot of great episodes throughout but there are a lot of little things that did not go so well.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Moderator
#554764
Or remembering that Kes existed.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#554768
Rick Berman was short sighted and didn't see the tv landscape moving toward serialization and therefore, actually didn't want Voyager to be serialized bc Ds9 was doing that....

All these issues are just the result of that more basic truth. The writers were just doing what they were told...
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#554808
Hoss-Drone wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 9:12 pm All these issues are just the result of that more basic truth. The writers were just doing what they were told...
Oh, absolutely. But that's never stopped nitpicking before, so why start now? :)

I was going to write that the bigger sin is that they did their establishing premiere and then didn't keep the premise (we're a mixed crew, and we have limited resources)... and then realized that DS9 probably ate their lunch by already having a mixed crew of folks who work together but don't always get agree, *and* used up a bunch of the easy "do we have enough torpedoes" and "can we make the technology techologe with limited resources" plots, and the Voyager team didn't realize it until after the pilot aired?

My opinion of Voyager is that it's the show with good episodes, but no good *seasons*. You can point to other Treks and find a string of shows that are good-to-great. (TNG season 5 or Enterprise season 4, if memory serves). Voyager just never hit it's stride.
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