The second Will of the Collective led to a unique equipment, designed entirely by the community!

What kind of card type should Epsilon be?

Equipment
31
53%
Event
23
39%
Interrupt
5
8%
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#42360
As Brad would say: "Cards have a cost on them for a reason, anything that let's you get it into play for free needs to be handled very carefully."

If this card gets voted into being made into an equipment then you better believe I'll do everything I can to stop it from going through.

If there isnt ready made, easily available counters to this acceleration then you are opening a pandora's box.

Event or Interrupt. Energize, Disadvantage, etc are events for a reason.
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By Mogor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#42361
Hoss-Drone wrote:As Brad would say: "Cards have a cost on them for a reason, anything that let's you get it into play for free needs to be handled very carefully."

If this card gets voted into being made into an equipment then you better believe I'll do everything I can to stop it from going through.

If there isnt ready made, easily available counters to this acceleration then you are opening a pandora's box.

Event or Interrupt. Energize, Disadvantage, etc are events for a reason.
Did I miss a turn somewhere, I was aiming for the Will of the Collective. Guess I'm not in Kansas anymore Toto.
 
By karonofborg13 (Matthew Hayes)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Architect
#42362
I voted for Event. If the gametext would additionally allow for something like the following: "Cards an opponent owns cannot destroy this event nor remove it from the game." would make it sort of like Finding Our Way, but, yet be preventable. I agree on the 'once per turn' limitation being bandied about.
User avatar
 
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#42365
Mogor wrote:
Hoss-Drone wrote:As Brad would say: "Cards have a cost on them for a reason, anything that let's you get it into play for free needs to be handled very carefully."

If this card gets voted into being made into an equipment then you better believe I'll do everything I can to stop it from going through.

If there isnt ready made, easily available counters to this acceleration then you are opening a pandora's box.

Event or Interrupt. Energize, Disadvantage, etc are events for a reason.
Did I miss a turn somewhere, I was aiming for the Will of the Collective. Guess I'm not in Kansas anymore Toto.
How little you understand politics.
User avatar
 
By Mogor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#42368
What I do understand is that this is supposed to be "Will of the Collective" not the Will of the Collective with Hoss-Drone holding "I will do everything to prevent this from being what I want it to be"

As far as costing this as an equipment to keep it balanced and avoid a acceleration. Make it an Unique Equipment, give it a cost of 4, have it do its thing then be placed on the bottom of the deck. Unless your pulling counter shengians already, that should keep the acceleration to a reasonable level.

What I don't want to see is members of the Continuing Committee coming in this thread and making statements that they are going to oppose what they set up in the first place with this "Will of the Collective" event.

I agree with those who said earlier if we want a viable alternative strategy for TN, event's are prone to destruction, Interrupts are 1-offs. Equipment tends to last a little longer.
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By Maelwys (Chris Lobban)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Community Contributor
#42369
MidnightLich wrote:One thing to be aware of: making it an equipment means that it can't really be culturally enforced. At least, there would be no precident for it being culturally enforced. That may be a concern for some of you.
Well, it might not technically be culturally enforced, but it's pretty close. In order to use it you need to use one of the two MotW HQs, plus at least one [TN] personnel and at least two [Car] or [Dom] personnel in play. I can't think of many ways to do all that easily without using Terok Nor. (otherwise you need to play Garak at DS9, and then somehow get a [TN] Cardassian with him to fulfill all the conditions)
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By LCJK
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#42380
This poll is asking a dumb question because as we can already see from the discussion in this thread the answer really depends on how often you can use the card and if there's any other costs involved.

I don't like the general idea of an interrupt or event because I think it'd be lame for a large amount of the personnel in my deck to be unplayable just because my opponent kept replaying Brunt or TOS Sisko every turn or something. I think that's why people like the idea of equipment, because unlike 1E there isn't any event-type card that is immune to nullification (hence the need for text like that on Finding Our Way for lynchpin cards) and equipment, missions and to some extent personnel are the safest place to put event-like gametext where it won't be removed from the table.

If it was a piece of equipment with a cost of say 3 and it had to return to your hand or got shuffled into your deck or something when you used it then I think that'd go a long way to placating any fears that this will get too many people into play too fast.
 
By Foreman
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
#42391
LCJK wrote: I don't like the general idea of an interrupt or event because I think it'd be lame for a large amount of the personnel in my deck to be unplayable just because my opponent kept replaying Brunt or TOS Sisko every turn or something.
I think one of the important things to keep in mind with this card is that it must not make a dual Cardassia/Founders Homeworld deck obsolete. If you can easilly play any [Car] or [Dom] personnel at terok nor there would be no reason to play the dual HQ. There is a reason that the personnel available to the [TN] have been limited. Reclaim Terok Nor is a decay event for this reason. It allows you to play characters at a HQ that they wre not designed to be played at. This is a huge step arond the principles of the game. (Sure there are other ways to do this, but they also have been limited.) By making this card an event that can be destroyed, you take a risk by placing non-terok nor personnel in your deck. Which is the way it should be. This card in no way should allow you to play a large amount of non [TN] personnel to terok nor.

This card provides 2 bonuses (saving counters and playing personnel at a HQ they could not normally play) Interstingly enough we already have a peice of equipment that can have those two bonuses as well. Multidimensional Transporter Device. That cards cost is to destroy itself so maybe if this one is an equipment then a similar cost would be warrented.

An interesting thing to consider is that if it is an equipment then Mavek will become a very important personnel in a terok nor deck.
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By garetjax
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
Architect
2E Danish National Champion 2015
#42402
This card provides 2 bonuses (saving counters and playing personnel at a HQ they could not normally play)
If the card saves counters depends on the cost of the card and ,if it is an equipment, what happens after it is used (example: placed under your deck).

An equipment that costs 4 and goes under the deck after usage would not save many counters.
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By LCJK
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#42404
Given that you need 6 TN people in play before you can use this I don't have any fears that this card will turn TN into a 'dual HQ but with only one HQ' type of deck. You still need a lot of TN people in your deck to be able to use it with any sort of consistency.

Also, who cares if this card obsoletes the 'Cardassia-Founder's Homeworld Dual HQ deck'? Does such a deck even exist and should we really care if that dual-HQ combination is not viable? There are plenty of other dual-HQ combinations that suck.

Back on topic: Can we disregard this poll and instead have a discussion on how this card will be costed (in terms of gameplay mechanic and counters) before we pick a card type?
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#42408
LCJK wrote:Back on topic: Can we disregard this poll and instead have a discussion on how this card will be costed (in terms of gameplay mechanic and counters) before we pick a card type?
Wouldn't the costing and mechanics that go into it actually dictate the card type and render another poll obsolete? Isn't it easier to say "This poll's decided it's an event - how shall we balance the card: once per turn mechanic; Decay; return to the owner's hand; higher counter cost; destroy this event at end of turn"?
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By LCJK
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#42410
Right now people are voting on card types because they think they know how the card might be costed if it were to be that card type. Nobody really cares what icon goes in the top left corner. We should be voting on actual costing ideas and then fitting those to a card type, not the other way around.
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By Gumbo
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#42417
LCJK wrote:Given that you need 6 TN people in play before you can use this
Where did you get that from I believe you only need a [TN] personel on a mouth of the wormhole and then either 2 [Car] or 2 [Dom] , so it could be as little as 2 people.
 
By Avaril
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#42419
LCJK wrote:Right now people are voting on card types because they think they know how the card might be costed if it were to be that card type. Nobody really cares what icon goes in the top left corner. We should be voting on actual costing ideas and then fitting those to a card type, not the other way around.
Agreed 100%. Interrupt would make it a weak card, but require no other balance. Equipment would be the 'strongest' inherent type due to the download option on the cardie and not many counters (there is at least one I can think of). Event would be the middle option.

That said, if we make it an equipment I hope we don't make it a shuffle into deck, because that would make the card useless. Right now playing it in deck stops you from using your dissidents (the only thing [TN] really had going for them before) which is also a large chunk of their available personal. A shuffle into deck would make this type of a deck very slow. Not exactly what I infer as the intent of the card. I would then rather use Reclaim as then I could use my dissidents and still get out my needed extra non [TN] peps. In other words, that choice would make this card into another Reclaim, a neat concept card that does not work great in practice.

I would vote for something with a small to middle cost 1-3 and a returns to hand or a higher cost 3-6 and a once a turn.
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