[The Prefect]

Maybe it's a case of when I agree with him my motives are pure...

Please don't worry. I promise I'll never think that.

[Armus]

Maybe it's a case of when I agree with him my motives are pure...

Please don't worry. I promise I'll never think that.

Way to lean right into that Type II error risk posture!

[Naetor]

No one in design works alone. But, yes those cards were designed by me to the extent that any single designer can be responsible for any given card. By your criteria, here are some other cards that were designed by me: Dereliction of Duty, Keevan, Interstellar Exigence, Surjak, Odo, Vigilant Staffer, Martok Founder, False Flag Officer, Vash, Duplicitous Damsel, Cutting Remark, Winn Adami, Uneasy Shepherd, and Gowron, Without Honor, among many others.

DoD- very, very bad
Keevan- fine
IE- undercosted
Surjak- meh
Odo- doesnt make sense
Martok- waay undercosted
Vash- 4th Vintner, nothing else
CR- giving choice to opponent makes it bland
WA- want a strong card? make it download
Gowron- just a stat stick

Fourth, designers learn from their mistakes. I'd like to think I am a better designer now than I was when I pitched The Enemy of My Enemy and Casualties of the Occupation. If I had never released those cards - never taken those risks - I'd have never learned from those mistakes. Ask yourself this question: do you want designers willing to take risks, or designers who always play it safe?

I quit and didn't compete in multiple events because I was sick of this garbage. So it did have a really bad impact on the game, at least for me. Maybe it was good for you.

I'm not sure why the sarcasm was warranted, given that I am trying to engage in frank and honest dialogue and haven't resorted to any myself.

I'm truly sorry you've found so few cards released lately up to your standards. I can only hope one day you'll decide to put your superior skills and expertise to use to help improve the game. I know many people have practically begged you to join testing, apply for design, etc. It seems a shame you've never taken them up on it. Oh well. Some people would rather tear things down than build things up.

You characterized CotO and TEofM as lessons to help you learn. You are like 1% of the player base. The other 99% have to play (or not) through your mistakes. Your response to that is, whatever, I made a couple OK cards too. But it doesn't matter because the designers are accountable to no one. You can destroy a meta for a year, and so long as you say the CC words you're still around designing sets.

Does anyone keep any metrics on which designers actually design good cards? It seems entirely based on who is in Charlie's good graces at any moment- and that's something I'm not interested in joining.

[MidnightLich]

I haven't had anything to do with picking designers in years.

-crp

[The Prefect]

You characterized CotO and TEofM as lessons to help you learn. You are like 1% of the player base. The other 99% have to play (or not) through your mistakes. Your response to that is, whatever, I made a couple OK cards too. But it doesn't matter because the designers are accountable to no one. You can destroy a meta for a year, and so long as you say the CC words you're still around designing sets.

Does anyone keep any metrics on which designers actually design good cards? It seems entirely based on who is in Charlie's good graces at any moment- and that's something I'm not interested in joining.

That's an interesting and wholly uncharitable way to characterize my response. If you think the knowledge that any card I helped design or pitched caused even one player to have an NPE doesn't bother me, then you quite simply aren't giving me a fair shake.

As Scott has already pointed out, there's no objective criteria by which to judge a "good card" from a "bad one." You seem to want designers to get the axe if they make a card that ends up needing errata or ends up being controversial, and I'd suggest that if we did that we'd either have no designers - or a small handful of designers too afraid to take risks and make interesting cards. That's not the game I want.

As far as your assertion that Charlie is some kind of puppet master or gate keeper, I hate to let facts get in the way of a popular (if lazy) narrative but that's just not been the case at any time I've been involved in 2e. Anyone who tells you that Charlie runs 2e from behind the scenes either has no idea what they're talking about or they're lying.

But, in a related observation, it occurs to me that one can tell a lot about a person by how they respond to a perceived need to get something done. Some people like to ask what they can do to help and then set about working as hard as they can. Other people like to scream a lot and then criticize anyone who tries to help for not doing it right - but they never lend a hand. The nice thing is that we get to choose which of those kinds of people we want to be. You've made your choice. I've made mine. I stand by my work. When I make mistakes I try to learn from them, and then work just as hard to continue to try to help. You want me gone because I've made, in your eyes, some unforgivable design mistakes. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I guess I am saying it would mean a lot more to me if you were actually one of the helpers.

[Naetor]

As far as your assertion that Charlie is some kind of puppet master or gate keeper, I hate to let facts get in the way of a popular (if lazy) narrative but that's just not been the case at any time I've been involved in 2e.

Lol! The guy is literally the 2e director. Maybe you didn't read the announcement article.

2e is in a lot worse position than I thought. Maybe you all should just go back to quitting Trek for 2020.

Me 6 months ago: Why is Charlie involved so much in the 2e director role?
6 month ago response: I have no interest in 2e leadership.
Yesterday: Charlie is now director- BUT HE HAS NO INTEREST IN THE LEADERSHIP

Give me a break.

[The Prefect]

As far as your assertion that Charlie is some kind of puppet master or gate keeper, I hate to let facts get in the way of a popular (if lazy) narrative but that's just not been the case at any time I've been involved in 2e.

Lol! The guy is literally the 2e director. Maybe you didn't read the announcement article.

2e is in a lot worse position than I thought. Maybe you all should just go back to quitting Trek for 2020.

Charlie is the Interim Director as of yesterday. There's a hug difference between that and what you're alleging. I think you're smart enough to know that.

In any case, thank you for giving me a clearer perspective on where you are in all of this.

[Naetor]

As far as your assertion that Charlie is some kind of puppet master or gate keeper, I hate to let facts get in the way of a popular (if lazy) narrative but that's just not been the case at any time I've been involved in 2e.

Lol! The guy is literally the 2e director. Maybe you didn't read the announcement article.

2e is in a lot worse position than I thought. Maybe you all should just go back to quitting Trek for 2020.

Charlie is the Interim Director as of yesterday. There's a hug difference between that and what you're alleging. I think you're smart enough to know that.

In any case, thank you for giving me a clearer perspective on where you are in all of this.

Just keep producing garbage. Your job is safe.

[Armus]

Dereliction of Duty

DoD- very, very bad.

Not sure how I missed this, but lolwhat?! How is DoD bad?

It's strong, and it goes under. Most of the nasty stuff you can do with it goes under too. That means I may eventually solve a mission!

I'll take that over bouncing bullshit any day... and I would think you would too... right?


Oh shit! Sykes is defending Shea again! What is that shady asshole up to now?!

[Naetor]

Dereliction of Duty

DoD- very, very bad.

Not sure how I missed this, but lolwhat?! How is DoD bad?

It's strong, and it goes under. Most of the nasty stuff you can do with it goes under too. That means I may eventually solve a mission!

I'll take that over bouncing bullshit any day... and I would think you would too... right?


Oh shit! Sykes is defending Shea again! What is that shady asshole up to now?!

Like all Shea cards it hits way too many targets. Kelvas V and Hyralan Sector don't need an unpassable wall- my guess is he didn't know keywords were abilities like some of the other rules misses he's had on new cards.

[Armus]

Like all Shea cards it hits way too many targets. Kelvas V and Hyralan Sector don't need an unpassable wall- my guess is he didn't know keywords were abilities like some of the other rules misses he's had on new cards.

That's a fair point. However, this is something that should be fixable by errata without overhauling the entire card. I'll bring it up with the errata team.

And as a 1E player who lived through the great DS9 Block Weaksauce snooze-fest, I kind of agree with the premise of allowing designers to push the envelope, as long as there's a strong errata function to catch when things go over the line.

[Neelix]

Like all Shea cards it hits way too many targets. Kelvas V and Hyralan Sector don't need an unpassable wall- my guess is he didn't know keywords were abilities like some of the other rules misses he's had on new cards.

That's a fair point. However, this is something that should be fixable by errata without overhauling the entire card. I'll bring it up with the errata team.

And as a 1E player who lived through the great DS9 Block Weaksauce snooze-fest, I kind of agree with the premise of allowing designers to push the envelope, as long as there's a strong errata function to catch when things go over the line.

Yes, 1E was in such a cool place years ago with the introduction of Continuing Mission and "sub-factions" with the jumpstart Warp Core cards. I loved it! My Players loved it (look at all the 1E tournaments we had in Sector 001 back then!) and we were so excited to see DS9 block build on this with Reactor Core cards -- then **SPLAT** it reeled things back to where it felt more like the old skool 1E slog fest that I am personally okay with, but most players were not. And our interest in 1E tanked completely.

I don't want to see the same thing happen to 2E so bring on the "Bad" cards and let's fix them later if absolutely necessary.

As to "not knowing that keywords are abilities" based on the various discussions about that on several platforms - I submit that Shea is not the only player who never thought of keywords in that way until it became relevant. Rules get changed some times, it doesn't make someone bad at their job if they are willing to learn and adapt.

[Hoss-Drone]

Asking for a friend...

Corbett I assume? This smells an awful lot like the classic Corbett maneuver of false choice A or false choice B leading to see it's all bad options - trust the process! I've got a plan!

The 2e well was poisoned long ago.

[Armus]

Asking for a friend...

Corbett I assume? This smells an awful lot like the classic Corbett maneuver of false choice A or false choice B leading to see it's all bad options - trust the process! I've got a plan!

The 2e well was poisoned long ago.

I've already said Corbett has nothing to do with this.

It's still true.