[Armus]

Ok since I'm getting accused of push polling and bad faith, we'll give the people what they want:

Fair and balanced questions:

What sets from the 40s were good? Why?

What sets from the 40s were bad? Why?

What individual cards from the 40s were good? Why?

What individual cards from the 40s were bad? Why?

Which mechanics and/or themes from the 40s were good? Why?

Which mechanics and/or themes from the 40s were bad? Why?

On the whole, do you think the 40s sets were good for the game? Why or why not?

Discuss!

[GooeyChewie]

Thank you. These questions form a much better basis for a discussion. I don’t have the time to respond fully right now, but I will when I get the chance.

[GooeyChewie]

It's been a rough couple weeks (for personal reasons), but at this point I should get started. Rather than lumping all the sets into big groups of 10, I think it might be useful for my own thinking to separate them out and look at each individually. That way I can respond in much more manageable chunks, and then give overall thoughts at the end.

40 - Zero Hour
Best Card: Dragon's Teeth
This card is high-risk, high-reward, as it could do nothing or it could kill two personnel. It hits weenies particularly hard, which is a good thing. It also allows for a lot of gamesmanship between the players. It can hurt players for overstuffing their hand, but a crafty player can also find ways to get their hand size down mid-dilemma.

Worst Card: Bread and Circuses
Set aside Underlying Influence and Pattern Loss for a moment. Bread and Circuses isn't the first 4-cost dilemma which stops everybody and bounces. But the others don't have that "Each of your personnel with a cost of 1 or less cannot use their skills while facing this dilemma." clause, and the requirements on Bread and Circuses aren't particularly easier than the others in the first place. Even on its own, Bread and Circuses should either not have had that clause or should not bounce. Add back in Underlying Influence and Pattern Loss existed prior to this dilemma, and it probably shouldn't do either.

Good/bad mechanics/themes: I'm lumping these together because outside of a "when you win combat/an engagement involving this personnel" cycle this expansion did not have a lot of overarching themes. Most of the rest of the cards are either one-offs or tie into themes created earlier in Phase II. As for the theme of winning combat/engagements, they are good for what they are. That is to say, they are good as bonuses for decks which already used combat/engagements, but outside of Delta Pavonis they aren't likely to inspire entirely new decks.

Was this expansion good for the game: Overall, yes. It didn't do a ton to shake up the game, but it did give us some new options and aside from the misstep with Bread and Circuses it also didn't hurt the game.

EDIT: Incorporated the correct search link. Thank you, @jadziadax8

[jadziadax8]

Link to @GooeyChewie' search.

[TyKajada]

.

First of all let me point out that I have no idea who designed what card, so that has nothing to do with anything.
Quick spontaneous answer without much checking, (probably the most honest one...:p)


What sets from the 40s were good? Why?
What sets from the 40s were bad? Why?

No particular stands out in my book, I do believe all of these have good and bad cards. From my casual point of view I could also say, some have interesting cards, some don't.


What individual cards from the 40s were good? Why?

Arne Darvin, HotE - Nice ability that makes up for a nice themed Klingon Tribble deck with Infestation pile. Love it.

Soft Cell - Again very thematic, fits into my Thief deck, good.

Hyralan Sector Did I mention I love cards with Trek sense, another example...

Harried and Harassed This card enables a lot of interaction, Great!

Royale Casino: Craps - Fun card.. hoping for Royale Casino dilemma pile in the future (with a trigger dilemma like Chula or Clown)

Bok and his Stargazer See theme and trek sense above. Good cards. I was skeptical about these at first but they turn out to be fun.


What sets from the 40s were bad? Why?

Q'Planet - A missed opportunity, this supposed to be Q's home planet. The ability is boring. Nothing points to other Q cards.

Hazardous Materials - I hated this dilemma, that cheesy Trellium D even got another boost. Awful, this dilemma went rampart for a while, luckily haven't seen it recently. I think it's too strong.

Both categories above have probably more cards.. those were what thought of right away.


Which mechanics and/or themes from the 40s were good? Why?

Shaping out the Mirror faction (KCA) was nicely done. I personally haven't played them, but I can see the effort and success in it.

Maneuver and Combat cards with static effects like Invasion Plans. I think these fit nicely into certain decks in combination with dilemma piles. Are they always gonna be successful probably not, but a new option available.

As I recall in this time period falls the invention of more headquarters with benefits/restrictions on them. If that's true, thumbs up, best idea in this era.


Which mechanics and/or themes from the 40s were bad? Why?

Sorry but I really disliked what has been done with Q's Planet and Deneb Approach. I know 2e is "streamlined" but come on, this brings the fantastic theme of Q and his cards and his keyword down to children's level. No connection to any previously created Q card, no synergy at all. It creates its own 40 card deck theme with no further support (thank god).
Clearly the worst thing for me in those 10 sets. A missed opportunity.

I don't care for the Nazi Starfleet faction, the theme alone is cringe worthy. Starfleet did not need another way to be played at the time. Waste of space that could have been gone to other more needed cards.
Does that count as an example for "the designer do what they like"?


On the whole, do you think the 40s sets were good for the game? Why or why not?

Good, new cards are always good for the game. Are they always great? Can they be broken? Possibly. But we have the tools with errata to correct things if necessary. As long as action will be taken switfly I don't see a problem with any set, 40 to 49 or 50 to 59.



PS I want to celebrate set 99 one day, so keep on working..

[GooeyChewie]

41 - The Nth Degree
This expansion was the first one created via "The Process," and probably the one which stayed truest to "The Process" as it was originally laid out. Two teams of two designers each created 27 cards based on themes of their own choice. One team (mine) focused primarily on equipment, with a secondary focus on encouraging diversity within decks. The other team focused on breaking design rules, specifically in the "you have to know the rules to know how to break them properly" way. After several rounds of playtesting, each team cut a large swath of their cards and we squished everything into 27 total cards.

Best Card: Seven of Nine (Immersed in Chaos)
There's actually a few good options here, but Seven of Nine is the one I find myself coming back to most often. It's a simple concept, just a decently good personnel with a ton of keywords so she can fit into a wide variety of decks.

Worst Card: Mobile Emitter
Obviously the TR-116 needed errata, but the basic idea behind it wasn't bad. Not so for the Mobile Emitter. This card was designed story-first, as we felt the expansion needed some "star power" equipment. But while the text makes sense, it doesn't do anything that Holograms couldn't already do better with Cluttering Irrelevancies. So while the gun needed a bit of balance, the Mobile Emitter ended up just being pointless, which in my mind is worse.

Best theme: Breaking the rules.
I want to be clear, this theme is good only because it hasn't been done again. Keevan is still the only persona which has become an equipment. One is still the only personnel with three lines of skills. Fek'lhr is still the only personnel with both Honor and Treachery. And so on, and so forth. As a result, these cards still feel unique and are memorable.

Honorable mention: Diversity within decks.
This theme gave us Aceton Assimilators, which I think is in contention for best card of the expansion. But the other cards, such as Repurposed Transmission, aren't as notable and thus I think the theme as a whole isn't as strong.

Worst theme: Equipment.
This theme faced a huge challenge, because equipment has never been overly useful in this game. I don't think this theme was bad, but it was never going to be as impactful as the other big theme of breaking the rules.

Was this expansion good for the game: Yes, I think so, at least in terms of what's in the expansion itself. Behind the scenes, I'm not so sure. The playtesters had to test 54 cards in full knowledge that half of them would get cut (but no knowledge of what would get cut). And from a designer's standpoint, we absolutely pitched cards for the express purpose of having easy cuts later in the process.

[jjh]

Thank you for the analysis Nathan and Alexander - Very thoughtful and enjoyable to read.

[GooeyChewie]

42 - Dead Stop
This boutique product expansion celebrated Halloween, with a combination of characters in costume and damage dilemmas designed to keep the affected player in suspense.

Best card: Macrovirus, I guess?
I've used this card in an Equinox deck before, choosing to actually play the Nucleogenic cards (rather than use them solely for fuel) to get extra kills.

Worst card: Frame of Mind
It has a wall of text, a fairly high cost (4), has not terribly difficult requirements which cause the dilemma to often do nothing, and even worse might actually help your opponent if it does go off.

Best theme: 'Suspense' dilemmas
With only 9 cards, there are only two themes (plus two cards which stand on their own, in Frame of Mind and Empok Nor). I suppose if I'm going to say Macrovirus is the card I'm most likely to use, this theme is the better of the two.

Worst theme: Costumed mains
This theme gave us some new versions of main characters who are 'in costume.' All of these personnel provide some new twist on an existing persona, but all of them also struggle to compete with the regular versions of those personnel.

Was this expansion good for the game: I think it comes down to a single question for which I don't have the answer. Do players like holiday-theme boutique expansions? This expansion didn't have a big impact on gameplay, but it certainly feels like Halloween. I would be interested in hearing others' thoughts on the matter.

[Armus]

42 - Dead Stop
This boutique product expansion celebrated Halloween, with a combination of characters in costume and damage dilemmas designed to keep the affected player in suspense.

Best card: Macrovirus, I guess?
I've used this card in an Equinox deck before, choosing to actually play the Nucleogenic cards (rather than use them solely for fuel) to get extra kills.

Worst card: Frame of Mind
It has a wall of text, a fairly high cost (4), has not terribly difficult requirements which cause the dilemma to often do nothing, and even worse might actually help your opponent if it does go off.

Best theme: 'Suspense' dilemmas
With only 9 cards, there are only two themes (plus two cards which stand on their own, in Frame of Mind and Empok Nor). I suppose if I'm going to say Macrovirus is the card I'm most likely to use, this theme is the better of the two.

Worst theme: Costumed mains
This theme gave us some new versions of main characters who are 'in costume.' All of these personnel provide some new twist on an existing persona, but all of them also struggle to compete with the regular versions of those personnel.

Was this expansion good for the game: I think it comes down to a single question for which I don't have the answer. Do players like holiday-theme boutique expansions? This expansion didn't have a big impact on gameplay, but it certainly feels like Halloween. I would be interested in hearing others' thoughts on the matter.

I'm shocked that you just did a giant post on this set and didn't mention Hazardous Materials even once!

Good or bad, that was probably the single most consequential card of the set.

[jadziadax8]

I think that the self-rescuing princess Dax holds her own against her other personae. I think she's probably the best of them, followed closely by horse-trading Trip. I've seen him used very effectively in decks.

[GooeyChewie]

I'm shocked that you just did a giant post on this set and didn't mention Hazardous Materials even once!

Good or bad, that was probably the single most consequential card of the set.

I think an argument could be made for either Hazardous Materials or Macrovirus being the most consequential card of the expansion. Macrovirus has been in more decks, but HazMats probably has a bigger impact when it does show up. Terllium-D was changed in April 2014, well before this expansion, so HazMats has always been somewhat relegated to Delphic Expanse decks. Still, I wouldn't say either dilemma is something I specifically concern myself with when deckbuilding.

Weirdly HazMats and Horse Trader end up working cross-purposes, as the dilemma wants you to keep the equipment in play and Trip wants to trade it away.

[Armus]

I think that the self-rescuing princess Dax holds her own against her other personae. I think she's probably the best of them, followed closely by horse-trading Trip. I've seen him used very effectively in decks.

I also hear that she enjoys trick-or-treating at Haunted Houses...

[Constance]

Good Card:

Deriliction of Duty
Breen Gun
Equipment Keevan
Asassin Rifle
NA Seven
Divergent Goals
Q missions
Zon
Reprimand
The Devil
Recessive Mutation
Terok Nor
Lethal Wound
Terra Prime
Change of Venue
Code of Ushaan
Shock Troops

Bad Card:
Assassin Rifle
Casualties of the Occupation
Stars are made of latinum
Capture Keevan
Enemy of my Enemy

[monty42]

Good Card:

• Harried and Harassed
  Natural and effective way to enable interaction. Allows multiple different setups with other dilemmas and/or pursuit cards.
• Delta Pavonis, Secure Expansion
  Even though there was an entire set in the 40s that was supposed to promote battle, this is the most effective card that does that from this era. Too bad it's not available to more affiliations.
• Dereliction of Duty
  Good meta-control card that doesn't overstay it's welcome by being overcome at the end of the attempt. Well balanced.
• A History of Collusion
  Good because it puts the decision on the opponents, how much they like their events.
• Defend It and Hope
  Other than it's companion, this one is actually useful in other ways than a draw engine
• Code of the Ushaan
  One of (if not) the most useful cards from both the 40s AND 50s

Bad Card:

• Bread and Circuses
  A dual dilemma that excludes certain personnel from using their skills, hits both of the doublers and on top of that returns to the dilemma pile. Horrendous!
• Space Seed
  Two requirements that, even without a filter, are often questionable to meet on a dilemma that will almost always be cost 0 by the time you attempt a planet.
• Casualties of the Occupation
  No words for that stinker.
• The Devil
  The fact that The Doctor lets you play cards from your Holoprograms and you will almost always play him at a discount puts him level with staffer Sisko, if not worse.
• Stunning Reversal
  Never in my entire time of playing this game have I witnessed somebody starting a fight they didn't win. I'm sure it once happened to somebody somewhere but to make a card for that occasion is just ridiculous.
• The Enemy of My Enemy
  For obvious reasons.

[Armus]

[*]The Devil

The fact that The Doctor lets you play cards from your Holoprograms and you will almost always play him at a discount puts him level with staffer Sisko, if not worse.

Respectfully disagree on this one.

You just rattled off a 3 card combo that takes at least 3 turns to set up and has a lot of moving pieces. Compared to Staffer Sisko who rolls in, gets bounced to hand (where he's relatively safe) and can plop out onto a ship next turn (which seeing him re-staff a ship you've managed to strand is even more disheartening than watching him clown your interrupts).

Holograms are still down the power rankings (though there's a case to be made that they're underrated). I don't see an issue with them having access to some counter play that's either vulnerable to counter play itself, or takes time and resources to set up.