Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
 
By anguss (Andrey Gusev)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#365817
T-Ricks wrote:An example would be Agonizing Encounter. If an opponent names a skill, it doesn't matter which set of requirements it is listed under. You stop someone for each mission that has that skill listed.
I believe that is not entirely true.
My understanding of the case is that the alternate requirements are only in effect when they are 'activated' ('triggered', i.e. during mission attempt), and they substitute the normal set of requirements till the 'activation' is over. So in case of the Destory Transwarp Hub - the mission does not require Exobiology, Navigation and Physics during attempt by Borg team.
And Expose Changeling Influence does not require Diplomacy outside the mission attempt by Dominion player.

However, I cannot find the ruling to support this, so may be I'm mistaken :?
But that is how we play locally.

Andrey
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Ambassador
By T-Ricks (Rick Kinney)
 - Ambassador
 -  
#365818
anguss wrote:
T-Ricks wrote:An example would be Agonizing Encounter. If an opponent names a skill, it doesn't matter which set of requirements it is listed under. You stop someone for each mission that has that skill listed.
I believe that is not entirely true.
My understanding of the case is that the alternate requirements are only in effect when they are 'activated' ('triggered', i.e. during mission attempt), and they substitute the normal set of requirements till the 'activation' is over. So in case of the Destory Transwarp Hub - the mission does not require Exobiology, Navigation and Physics during attempt by Borg team.
And Expose Changeling Influence does not require Diplomacy outside the mission attempt by Dominion player.

However, I cannot find the ruling to support this, so may be I'm mistaken :?
But that is how we play locally.

Andrey
Now that you say that, I think I recall your understanding being correct. We've always played it the way I described, but I seem to remember a discussion where it was concluded only the active requirements were to be used. Thanks for the reminder.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#365842
T-Ricks wrote:
jbales1974 wrote:Why are people making this so complicated?!?!? It's a yes or no question!!!
I agree. Is "Strength" highlighted in bold as a mission requirement? Yes or No. Simple. It is irrelevant if you use the strength requirement or not.
I can't speak for the other designers, but this is the spirit in which I meant the text during design. It's not a {Integrity, Cunning, Strength} mission; it just happens to allow you to use those things to solve it.

-crp
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#365882
T-Ricks wrote:
anguss wrote:
T-Ricks wrote:An example would be Agonizing Encounter. If an opponent names a skill, it doesn't matter which set of requirements it is listed under. You stop someone for each mission that has that skill listed.
I believe that is not entirely true.
My understanding of the case is that the alternate requirements are only in effect when they are 'activated' ('triggered', i.e. during mission attempt), and they substitute the normal set of requirements till the 'activation' is over. So in case of the Destory Transwarp Hub - the mission does not require Exobiology, Navigation and Physics during attempt by Borg team.
And Expose Changeling Influence does not require Diplomacy outside the mission attempt by Dominion player.

However, I cannot find the ruling to support this, so may be I'm mistaken :?
But that is how we play locally.

Andrey
Now that you say that, I think I recall your understanding being correct. We've always played it the way I described, but I seem to remember a discussion where it was concluded only the active requirements were to be used. Thanks for the reminder.
Yeah, I could see it either way, and it's why - although I love the flavor and trek-sense of a lot of those missions - there should maybe be some consideration for splitting them up. Functional errata on the original to just be the main listing then persona missions released with the alt requirements.

Whenever art has the time for a supplemental product that is. lol
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#366051
Hoss-Drone wrote: How the game defines "require" is the issue and as such that's the only logic argument that is valid imho. Do we want to define "require" as: "the mission must say explicitly that it has strength as a possible requirement." OR do we define it as: "the mission must have strength as a known possible requirement.".

This is why I still think the answer is the former since that makes everything more clear and i'll withhold my smartass comment I would like to make at Kirk right now.
I lost that argument over 2 years ago with the War Games ruling, but to be fair, we've always played Vintner/Tain/K'mtar using any mission with the printed skill, whether it was technically "required" or simply optional. So based on those two factors, I'd say the simple version of requiring stength = printed STRENGTH>X is the most straightforward and easy to understand, which in my mind does count for something.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#366072
Armus wrote:...but to be fair, we've always played Vintner/Tain/K'mtar using any mission with the printed skill, whether it was technically "required" or simply optional.
Are you saying you saying you used to play with a set of rules whereby you could include Obtain Vaccine in a Vintner deck and have his game text trigger, or that you still do play by those rules?
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#366114
Danny wrote:
Armus wrote:...but to be fair, we've always played Vintner/Tain/K'mtar using any mission with the printed skill, whether it was technically "required" or simply optional.
Are you saying you saying you used to play with a set of rules whereby you could include Obtain Vaccine in a Vintner deck and have his game text trigger, or that you still do play by those rules?
Here's an evil Kmtar deck that avoids the Diplomacy and goes for Treachery alternate requirements.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#366183
Armus wrote:...but to be fair, we've always played Vintner/Tain/K'mtar using any mission with the printed skill, whether it was technically "required" or simply optional.
Danny wrote: Are you saying you saying you used to play with a set of rules whereby you could include Obtain Vaccine in a Vintner deck and have his game text trigger, or that you still do play by those rules?
Naetor wrote:Here's an evil Kmtar deck that avoids the Diplomacy and goes for Treachery alternate requirements.
That's great, but all the Diplomacy that K'mtar needs is in the standard requirements, rather than the "alternate requirements" (so, obviously, K'mtar's going to have no problem with that).

I was asking if Armus played with rules that let Vintner use Obtain Vaccine to trigger his game text (as the Biology that the Vintner needs can only be found in the mission's "alt requirements").
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#366296
Danny wrote:
Armus wrote:...but to be fair, we've always played Vintner/Tain/K'mtar using any mission with the printed skill, whether it was technically "required" or simply optional.
Are you saying you saying you used to play with a set of rules whereby you could include Obtain Vaccine in a Vintner deck and have his game text trigger, or that you still do play by those rules?
No, my previous point had nothing to do with Modal requirements. I'm saying that any Tain deck that uses, say, Abduction Plot has been drawing cards for years when, strictly speaking, the mission doesn't require Intelligence. Which is to say, a game state can exist where you can solve that mission without Intelligence. A strict reading of the Tain card would lead to a conclusion that Abduction Plot was not a 'valid' mission, but to my knowledge, nobody has ever played that way. Instead it's been the simple, straightforward, printed Skill = skill required by that mission, which is the logic behind my interpretation of the rules with respect to the current question.

tl;dr: Required doesn't really mean required. Required means printed.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#366413
Dukat wrote:One follow-up question.

Let's say I have solved Amnesty Talks, but using the second skill set.

May I, nonetheless, play an artifact card?
Because artifacts say that I must have complted a mission requiring it.
Yeah, that works. You can play Cargo Run on a mission too, after you solve it.



Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
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By CaptMDKirk (Matt Kirk)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#366437
Dukat wrote:Wait ... what do you mean ...

I play Cargo Run on a SOLVED mission - and I get 5 points for it?

Is that what you mean?
I think he meant that, if Cargo Run is played on a mission after it is completed, you can play Artifacts since that mission now requires Acquisition.
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