[KillerB]

Can Neil use Williams' ability to get around no win triggering on "Choose a 'Skill Whatever' personnel to be stopped"?

I told Neil no and he won't shut up now.

[pschrader]

I actually think Neil may be right on this one. If it’s the type of dilemma I think you’re talking about, you have to actually stop the person you select in order to not meet the requirements and trigger the kill.

So if Williams uses his ability he actually “prevents” the stop, which would mean the req isn’t met and the kill happens, which means No Win shouldn’t trigger.

It’s kind of like the scenario I used against Neil in the fake tournament where I used Ferengi Computer to prevent the stop on one of those dilemmas and then used Keevan to prevent the kill.

[KillerB]

So choosing the personnel with the skill isn't the trigger for No Win?

I'll just wait until Amber tells me I'm wrong and I owe Neil a Pat's cheesesteak.

[CaptMDKirk]

Choosing a personnel to be stopped (for example vs Command Decisions) meets the requirements; you show the skill on the person you choose, and No-Win triggers its random stop as a mandatory response. As an optional response, Williams could then prevent either the Command Decisions stop (triggering its kill text), or he could prevent the No-Win random stop.

[KillerB]

Choosing a personnel to be stopped (for example vs Command Decisions) meets the requirements; you show the skill on the person you choose, and No-Win triggers its random stop as a mandatory response. As an optional response, Williams could then prevent either the Command Decisions stop (triggering its kill text), or he could prevent the No-Win random stop.

Yup. I said mine was mandatory and his was optional.

[ntimmons]

Choosing a personnel to be stopped (for example vs Command Decisions) meets the requirements; you show the skill on the person you choose, and No-Win triggers its random stop as a mandatory response. As an optional response, Williams could then prevent either the Command Decisions stop (triggering its kill text), or he could prevent the No-Win random stop.

But there is a space in between the selection of the personnel and them meeting the requirements by stopping. If something happens in that space and there is not a person with leadership stopped, then the requirements are not met and I have to randomly kill a personnel. It isn't a matter of mandatory or optional responses, dilemma guide part 3i says "process the dilemma's non-cost related actions one at a time", so I respond to the choice of personnel, not to them using the skill and being stopped. I am using a Response action..

Oh, also there's this:

There are two special types of response actions, cost modifiers and
“prevent” response actions. Cost modifiers occur before a card’s cost is
paid, and before any other response action. “Prevent” response actions
are taken after costs are paid, but before any other response action can
be taken. In the case of dilemmas, “prevent” response actions can be
taken before or after any action of the dilemma. If a card, action, or
effect is prevented, no further response actions to that card, action, or
effect may be taken.

(emphasis mine)

Whiz + Wit.. and cheese fries... I'll get my own peppers.
N!

[bhosp]

It’s a dumb edge case either way, which is why I replied with a shruggie emoji when they asked me.

Is this the ruling you two asked for before telling me it ended up not mattering? (But neither of you were playing Starfleet or NWS? Have I phased again?)

I’m glad I didn’t have to actually rule on this on Saturday. I’d have had to stop everything and consult with the Vice Chair, maybe even do a conference call with Amber in the Snake Room. And that tournament ran long enough as it was.


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[ntimmons]

Is this the ruling you two asked for before telling me it ended up not mattering?

No.

But it was you that taught me how to play NWS, I figured you would actually know how the stuff works.. It has been a while since we tossed Starfleet NWS against other things, perhaps in your old age you have forgotten all the things?

N!

[jadziadax8]

This thread is making me make the 1E face right now.

[Armus]

This thread is making me make the 1E face right now.

[KillerB]

This thread is making me make the 1E face right now.

Neil had to go into the Keller Dilemma Resolution Guide and make everyone sad.

It's weird how my kitchen table games always lead to a Rules issue, but I never have problems in tournament games.

[CaptMDKirk]

But there is a space in between the selection of the personnel and them meeting the requirements by stopping. If something happens in that space and there is not a person with leadership stopped, then the requirements are not met and I have to randomly kill a personnel. It isn't a matter of mandatory or optional responses, dilemma guide part 3i says "process the dilemma's non-cost related actions one at a time", so I respond to the choice of personnel, not to them using the skill and being stopped.

Here's the difference: No-Win Scenario triggers when a dilemma's requirements are met. The requirement of Command Decisions et al. is "Choose a personnel with XXX or YYY to be stopped." When the choice is made, the requirement is met, and No-Win processes as a mandatory response action. Any optional response action that would prevent the Command Decisions stop happens afterwards:

Sometimes the trigger for more than one response action will be met at the same time. In these situations, all mandatory response actions occur first.

Your interpretation would be correct if Command Decisions was instead written "Stop a XXX or YYY personnel", since Williams could effectively prevent you from meeting the requirement. But as written, the personnel uses their skill and the requirement is met when they are chosen to be stopped (and No-Win triggers first as a mandatory response).

[KillerB]

Neil, I'll take an American wit-out. I'll see you at Pats

[bhosp]

This thread is making me make the 1E face right now.

I reported Neil’s post for making me sad. Sykes please ban Neil he needs a timeout. Also please erase this thread from history. Only a temporal incursion can make this right.


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[jadziadax8]