[Mogor]

How does Valkris work with the Klingon Intelligence Agents,

They both have when effects impacting downloads

[prylardurden]

As non-optional must actions, V and Borak would put the card on top the deck (also if I have both of them, you are not getting draws from V). Morka would then have the may action if you really wanted it on the bottom of the deck.

The strategy would be to have one of the musts, followed by morka depending on what the download was.

[GooeyChewie]

The long technical answer:

When multiple cards instruct a player to place a downloaded card somewhere other than in hand (i.e. at a mission, on top of deck), these will resolve in the normal order of response actions. Moving the card to a location other than hand will not affect its final destination. Example: A player downloads a ship per the text of Commandeer Prototype. His opponent has Bo'rak, Klingon Intelligence Agent in play. In this case, the card will go to the top of that player's deck and then into play at Commandeer Prototype.

If you have both Valkris and Bo'rak, you would choose the order in which they happened. You might as well choose Valkris first, just in case they forget you have Bo'rak and give you the draws, because the card will end up on top of the deck anyway.

Adding Morka to the mix makes things a bit more interesting. You could in theory have either Valkris (or Bo'rak) place the card on top of the deck, have Morka move it to the bottom of the deck, and then the Bo'rak (or Valkris) would move it back to the top of the deck (and you could trigger Morka again, but now you've wasted cards from hand). To avoid that situation, you'd want to use Morka on the second trigger. In that regard you have two options:

1. Use Valkris first. The opponent has no reason to let you draw cards, so the card is placed on top of the deck. (Or they screw up and give you two card draws. If so, hey, free cards.) Use Bo'rak. The card is placed on top of the deck again, and Morka triggers to move it to the bottom of the deck.

2. Use Bo'rak first. The card is placed on top of the deck. Use Valkris. The opponent has the choice: let you draw two cards, or risk Morka moving the card to the bottom of the deck. If they let you draw two cards, the card they downloaded will be on top of their deck.

The short answers:

With just Bo'rak and Valkris, the card will end up on top of their deck.

With Bo'rak, Valkris and Morka, you can choose either 1) force the card to the bottom of the deck, or 2) make your opponent choose between the card going to the bottom of the deck or leaving it on top of the deck and letting you draw two cards.

[prylardurden]

The long technical answer:

When multiple cards instruct a player to place a downloaded card somewhere other than in hand (i.e. at a mission, on top of deck), these will resolve in the normal order of response actions. Moving the card to a location other than hand will not affect its final destination. Example: A player downloads a ship per the text of Commandeer Prototype. His opponent has Bo'rak, Klingon Intelligence Agent in play. In this case, the card will go to the top of that player's deck and then into play at Commandeer Prototype.

If you have both Valkris and Bo'rak, you would choose the order in which they happened. You might as well choose Valkris first, just in case they forget you have Bo'rak and give you the draws, because the card will end up on top of the deck anyway.

Adding Morka to the mix makes things a bit more interesting. You could in theory have either Valkris (or Bo'rak) place the card on top of the deck, have Morka move it to the bottom of the deck, and then the Bo'rak (or Valkris) would move it back to the top of the deck (and you could trigger Morka again, but now you've wasted cards from hand). To avoid that situation, you'd want to use Morka on the second trigger. In that regard you have two options:

1. Use Valkris first. The opponent has no reason to let you draw cards, so the card is placed on top of the deck. (Or they screw up and give you two card draws. If so, hey, free cards.) Use Bo'rak. The card is placed on top of the deck again, and Morka triggers to move it to the bottom of the deck.

2. Use Bo'rak first. The card is placed on top of the deck. Use Valkris. The opponent has the choice: let you draw two cards, or risk Morka moving the card to the bottom of the deck. If they let you draw two cards, the card they downloaded will be on top of their deck.

The short answers:

With just Bo'rak and Valkris, the card will end up on top of their deck.

With Bo'rak, Valkris and Morka, you can choose either 1) force the card to the bottom of the deck, or 2) make your opponent choose between the card going to the bottom of the deck or leaving it on top of the deck and letting you draw two cards.

8. Mandatory “When . . . (play/plays/played)” response actions
process beginning with the Active Player.
9. Optional “When . . . (play/plays/played)” response actions process
beginning with the Active Player.

Pretty sure you cant activate Valkris or Borak (mandatory) *after* Morka (optional).

[GooeyChewie]

Pretty sure you cant activate Valkris or Borak (mandatory) *after* Morka (optional).

Mandatory responses happening before option responses only matters when they are responses to the same trigger. Morka responds to the card being placed on top of the deck. He can trigger in response to both Bo’rak and Valkris (assuming they pick the top of deck option). It’s not a good idea, but it is technically true.

[prylardurden]

Apparently I was reading Morka as the 'download' trigger, not 'top of deck' trigger. Oops.

[Mogor]

The pack of these folks plus standard orbit makes for a some decent deck control

[Naetor.Ret]

Curious about these interactions:

1) You download multiple cards simultaneously (eg Fourth)

2) You download cards into play (eg K\'mtar)

3) You download cards into play but they later go somewhere (eg Imperial Entanglements)

[Mogor]

Curious about these interactions:

1) You download multiple cards simultaneously (eg Fourth)

2) You download cards into play (eg K\'mtar)

3) You download cards into play but they later go somewhere (eg Imperial Entanglements)

K'mtar seems like a 2 part download process as you download then play. So the question is where are they prior to the play part

[edgeofhearing]

Curious about these interactions:

1) You download multiple cards simultaneously (eg Fourth)

2) You download cards into play (eg K\'mtar)

3) You download cards into play but they later go somewhere (eg Imperial Entanglements)

K'mtar seems like a 2 part download process as you download then play. So the question is where are they prior to the play part

The last official ruling on #2 came from this shitshow of a thread wherein the short-lived anonymous 2e Rules Liaison eventually compared people who disagreed with him/her to "retarded dogs". Basically, Valkris or Bo'rak put the downloaded cards somewhere else, and then the rest of the text doesn't happen because you can't play cards from the top of your deck. This ruling was a reversal of Decipher-era rulings - back then, you could still play Bo'raked cards downloaded by K'mtar because K'mtar's text then allows you to play those cards. The ruling as written leaves some room for Imperial Entanglements to possibly still work, since it is so focused on the word "play".

Interestingly, the rules tool entry on Klingon Tea Ceremony (which should answer question #1) does not agree with the Rules Liaison's ruling on the matter from the aforementioned thread. I'm curious if the current Rules Committee also feels differently on questions #2 and 3, but currently K'mtar is hosed and Imperial Entanglements is likely hosed too (by Bo'rak, I'd probably give the Valkris player 10 cards to make my Romulan shenanigans work).

[KillerB]

RSVP 2E Rules Liaison

[The Prefect]

The last official ruling on #2 came from this shitshow of a thread wherein the short-lived anonymous 2e Rules Liaison eventually compared people who disagreed with him/her to "retarded dogs".

Wow, I had never seen that thread before. I guess there's always been a high degree of toxicity on these forums - even from volunteers. It's a shame, really, since we're really all here for love of the same game.

[Naetor.Ret]

Curious about these interactions:

1) You download multiple cards simultaneously (eg Fourth)

2) You download cards into play (eg K\'mtar)

3) You download cards into play but they later go somewhere (eg Imperial Entanglements)

K'mtar seems like a 2 part download process as you download then play. So the question is where are they prior to the play part

The last official ruling on #2 came from this shitshow of a thread wherein the short-lived anonymous 2e Rules Liaison eventually compared people who disagreed with him/her to "retarded dogs". Basically, Valkris or Bo'rak put the downloaded cards somewhere else, and then the rest of the text doesn't happen because you can't play cards from the top of your deck. This ruling was a reversal of Decipher-era rulings - back then, you could still play Bo'raked cards downloaded by K'mtar because K'mtar's text then allows you to play those cards. The ruling as written leaves some room for Imperial Entanglements to possibly still work, since it is so focused on the word "play".

Interestingly, the rules tool entry on Klingon Tea Ceremony (which should answer question #1) does not agree with the Rules Liaison's ruling on the matter from the aforementioned thread. I'm curious if the current Rules Committee also feels differently on questions #2 and 3, but currently K'mtar is hosed and Imperial Entanglements is likely hosed too (by Bo'rak, I'd probably give the Valkris player 10 cards to make my Romulan shenanigans work).

Hmm... thanks for setting where things are in the current ruling. I would have guessed #2 and #3 could go off fully without giving your opponent even 1 card draw, eg "I choose to put them on top of my deck but they go into play because it says so". Hope I'm wrong.

[prylardurden]

The last official ruling on #2 came from this shitshow of a thread wherein the short-lived anonymous 2e Rules Liaison eventually compared people who disagreed with him/her to "retarded dogs".

Ah, thanks for the memories