[bhosp]

Culluh. Maybe.

Who?

There is no villain in any franchise that qualitatively compares to Dukat. He is Star Trek's most complex and well-developed villain. Maybe Khan. Maybe Elim Garak. As far as heroes go: who can compare to Spock? No one. Maybe Kirk and Picard. Those characters are in a league all their own. They're iconic.

If that's the threshold we're setting, some of our existing affiliations don't get made.

Now you’ve gone too far. I won’t stand for this Winn Adami erasure.

Also Sybok (at least in concept, if not in execution) is a “villain” who genuinely wants to help people and could surpass Dukat if Discovery ever finds the guts to take a risk and revisit him.

[Faithful Reader]

Culluh. Maybe.

Who?

Lead Kazon. Appeared in as many episodes as Sela. And twice as many as Locutus.

I can see where you're trying to go here but are you gonna tell me that even the most dedicated Voyager fan can honestly argue that any Kazon, Viidian or Hirogen could ever compete with a Dukat, Weyoun, Locutus, Quark or Sela?

If they're a diehard fan, probably by definition.

It's a franchise with over seven hundred episodes. We'll like some more than others. There's a huge thread on the All Things Trek board with us arguing over one currently airing.

And Sela'a got her own issues.

[bhosp]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bhosp]

[monty42]

Culluh. Maybe.

Who?

Lead Kazon. Appeared in as many episodes as Sela. And twice as many as Locutus.

And yet he doesn't have even have a fraction of the background story that the two of them have. Which makes him just another guy.

I can see where you're trying to go here but are you gonna tell me that even the most dedicated Voyager fan can honestly argue that any Kazon, Viidian or Hirogen could ever compete with a Dukat, Weyoun, Locutus, Quark or Sela?

If they're a diehard fan, probably by definition. [/quote]
The "diehard" fan will always fight the losing battle agains the rational argument.

[monty42]

Now let's try and make a joke like this with Culluh...

[bhosp]

Yeah I like Culluh but the only thing that makes him interesting is Seska.

[bhosp]

Now let's try and make a joke like this with Culluh...

I can’t look for one because I got banned from Star Trek Shitposting for calling Geordi an incel

But there’s always this one about the real Big Bad on Voyager:

[Faithful Reader]

The "diehard" fan will always fight the losing battle agains the rational argument.

You mean the complaints that the Klingons were different, it messes up the timeline, the sets were new, the technology was entirely redesigned as were the uniforms - without a word of explanation and there were behind the scenes difficulties and it didn't feel liek trek?

But The Motion Picture, The Next Generation, Enterprise, Into Darkness and Discovery all turned out fine.

Heck, when The Next Genreation came out, fans were bitching that it wasn't Trek without Kirk and Picard.

There's rational arguments on both sides.

[bhosp]

There's rational arguments on both sides.

Don’t you dare “very fine people on both sides” this nonsense.

[bhosp]

Can we all at least agree that 2E needs the Sex Ghost?

[bhosp]

DOU
NAE
LITE
TH’CANDALL!

[The Prefect]

Sela schmela. Nostalgia for Yar + Denise Crosby needed a gig.

Q was great. But, on the level of Dukat? No. He was a more well-developed and better-acted Trelane.

Locutus was only interesting because underneath it all it was Picard turned against himself.

Kai Winn, Weyoun, and even the Founder Leader: all great. But, not iconic. Not series defining. Listen, if I had my way we'd be doing an 81 card set on the Dominion War, and it would be fantastic! But, I don't always get what I want.

Here's my opinion boiled down: if a new affiliation gets a significant number of players excited, if it creates buzz, if it's done well, and if it adds something to the game - then it's a win.

And frankly, it would also serve as a message to 2E players that we're as worthy of innovation as 1E. I travel across my region. I hear it all the time: 1E gets all the new stuff. They're not 100% right, but part of the reason they feel that way is because 2E sets have been consistently shrinking while 1E gets a new affiliation roll-out. Players notice things like that.

Maybe it's time we broaden our horizons. That's all I'm saying.

[bhosp]

Kai Winn, Weyoun, and even the Founder Leader: all great. But, not iconic. Not series defining.

[monty42]

The "diehard" fan will always fight the losing battle agains the rational argument.

You mean the complaints that the Klingons were different, it messes up the timeline, the sets were new, the technology was entirely redesigned as were the uniforms - without a word of explanation and there were behind the scenes difficulties and it didn't feel liek trek?

But The Motion Picture, The Next Generation, Enterprise, Into Darkness and Discovery all turned out fine.

Heck, when The Next Genreation came out, fans were bitching that it wasn't Trek without Kirk and Picard.

There's rational arguments on both sides.

Now what the hell does that have to do with anything?