[monty42]

...waiting on and affiliations to make their way into 2E!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, please don't bring this dreadful shit to my game!
The day that happens, I'm out the door.

[Naetor]

...waiting on and affiliations to make their way into 2E!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, please don't bring this dreadful shit to my game!
The day that happens, I'm out the door.

I agree, we don't really need another affiliation unless there is an interesting mechanic to introduce that doesn't fit into an existing one.

I could see these "affiliations" become a suite of dilemmas/verbs with or without a Kazon keyword that ties them together, kinda like they did with Species 8345729er.

[bhosp]

And heeeeeere come the Voyager haters.

TO THE FEDORAMOBILE

[monty42]

And heeeeeere come the Voyager haters.

TO THE FEDORAMOBILE

It's not about hating Voyager (even though I do). The three delta affilations were a shameless money grab on Decipher's part at a time when it all went down the drain.
They're mostly constructed around two popular characters and a shitload of random stooges with made up names. They came and went more or less within a season so there is very little material to go on.

I'm not opposed to a new affilation (like Nate said, there has to ba a good idea behind it though) but I'd rather go with i.e. Vulcans before I'd pick the Delta crap. At least there is some lore there.

[bhosp]

random stooges with made up names.

Well that’s definitely coming soon to 2E so thanks for getting us back on topic.

[prylardurden]

random stooges with made up names.

Well that’s definitely coming soon to 2E so thanks for getting us back on topic.

[monty42]

random stooges with made up names.

Well that’s definitely coming soon to 2E so thanks for getting us back on topic.

Yeah right, I remember.
WHY DON'T YOU COME UP WITH BETTER CARDS, HOSP!?

[The Prefect]

...waiting on and affiliations to make their way into 2E!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, please don't bring this dreadful shit to my game!
The day that happens, I'm out the door.

That's the sort of open-mindedness this game needs.



So, not even if it's a good idea? Not even if it seems cool? Not even if it energizes players?

If this game survives long enough, it's going to run out of interesting source material eventually. And, thanks to this attitude, it's going to happen to us in 2E a lot sooner that it happens in 1E.

[monty42]

...waiting on and affiliations to make their way into 2E!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, please don't bring this dreadful shit to my game!
The day that happens, I'm out the door.

That's the sort of open-mindedness this game needs.



So, not even if it's a good idea? Not even if it seems cool? Not even if it energizes players?

If this game survives long enough, it's going to run out of interesting source material eventually. And, thanks to this attitude, it's going to happen to us in 2E a lot sooner that it happens in 1E.

Don't put this on me! I'm not a designer. You designers can do whatever the hell you want. It's up to you. This is just my opinion and I think the game will survive just fine without me.

[Resistance-is-futile]

I would tend to agree 2e doesn’t need new affiliations

[The Prefect]

Don't put this on me! I'm not a designer. You designers can do whatever the hell you want. It's up to you. This is just my opinion and I think the game will survive just fine without me.

That's a cop-out. Designers don't design in a vacuum and you know it.

When designers get told, "No new affiliations. Period. End of discussion." or, the almost as infuriating, "It has to be AMAZING." then that creates a chilling effect. That is on you - well, not you alone, but I think you understand what I'm getting at.

There are players, and active ones, who want 2E to get a "Vulcan" moment, like 1E got. There are 2E players who see 1E getting new innovations and wonder why we don't seem to get as much as 1E does. Now, I realize that's a complicated issue and that the answer is multi-faceted and complex, but this "no new affiliations" attitude is part of the problem.

How about keeping an open mind? How about being open to the possibility that we could come up with something that could excite even you? Or at least interest you - and other players too. How about being open to innovation done well?

I do agree that, because in 2E the creation of a new affiliation requires a bit more work, the bar should be set high - but not impossibly so. Good ideas will do. Ideas that players enjoy. Ideas that get people building new decks - or even returning to the game. After all, isn't that what we're supposed to be doing here?

[The Prefect]

I would tend to agree 2e doesn’t need new affiliations

I don't understand that.

I get the "it has to be a good idea or else..." approach. Though - as I said before, I think it's been used in the past to stifle creativity and debate, as in "it has to be AMAZING, or else..."

But, I don't understand the position that 2E is already essentially all it will ever be, at least from an affiliation standpoint. There's just so much creative material out there unexplored. And, apparently, so much we're willing to leave on the table.

I do understand that Decipher screwed up 1E when they released the Delta affiliations. But, that doesn't mean 2E would also have to a bad job of releasing a new affiliation. It's more likely to me that, having that as a cautionary tale to benefit from, we're far less likely to make the same mistakes.

And, what about 2E Vulcans? What about 2E Xindi - 1E doesn't even have that. Can it really be true that Hirogen, Kazon, Viddian, Vulcans, and Xindi are all less deserving of our attention than what we already have?

[Naetor]

Historically designers design the cards they want, and then tell you 'you don't know anything' if you dare question it. I like the new designers, but when I saw Nothing to Lose a little 2e part of me died. If I'm just running into boring walls for 1 hour, yeah... I'd quit.

[monty42]

Don't put this on me! I'm not a designer. You designers can do whatever the hell you want. It's up to you. This is just my opinion and I think the game will survive just fine without me.

That's a cop-out. Designers don't design in a vacuum and you know it.

When designers get told, "No new affiliations. Period. End of discussion." or, the almost as infuriating, "It has to be AMAZING." then that creates a chilling effect. That is on you - well, not you alone, but I think you understand what I'm getting at.

There are players, and active ones, who want 2E to get a "Vulcan" moment, like 1E got. There are 2E players who see 1E getting new innovations and wonder why we don't seem to get as much as 1E does. Now, I realize that's a complicated issue and that the answer is multi-faceted and complex, but this "no new affiliations" attitude is part of the problem.

How about keeping an open mind? How about being open to the possibility that we could come up with something that could excite even you? Or at least interest you - and other players too. How about being open to innovation done well?

I do agree that, because in 2E the creation of a new affiliation requires a bit more work, the bar should be set high - but not impossibly so. Good ideas will do. Ideas that players enjoy. Ideas that get people building new decks - or even returning to the game. After all, isn't that what we're supposed to be doing here?

Maybe you should re-read my posts. Let me quote myself from above:

... The three delta affilations were a shameless money grab on Decipher's part at a time when it all went down the drain.
They're mostly constructed around two popular characters and a shitload of random stooges with made up names. They came and went more or less within a season so there is very little material to go on.

I'm not opposed to a new affilation (like Nate said, there has to ba a good idea behind it though) but I'd rather go with i.e. Vulcans before I'd pick the Delta crap. At least there is some lore there.

I don't know what gave you the impression that I don't have an open mind.
I believe there is a lot of design space left to explore in 2E without going to a new affilation but I'm not opposed to the general idea.
I am however opposed to that affilation being either , or for the above reasons. I think those were a bad idea on Decipher's part and I don't want those mistakes to be repeated.

[The Prefect]

Historically designers design the cards they want, and then tell you 'you don't know anything' if you dare question it. I like the new designers, but when I saw Nothing to Lose a little 2e part of me died. If I'm just running into boring walls for 1 hour, yeah... I'd quit.

Well, now we're talking about a matter of execution.

There are plenty of ways around this expensive wall.

But, I get it the point you're making. So, I'll concede once again that any affiliation idea would have to be well executed. I don't think there's an active designer on the team that doesn't get that.