[Danny]

4 members of Terra prime have names. 5 if you count Nathan Samuels (we didn’t).

(Also I’m 100% sure that Dr. McCoy has been to at least one Terra Prime meeting, and I bet Pulaski and O’Brien have too. But that’s neither here nor there. )

Chill, fella - I’ve no beef with Terra Prime; they still sport the Starfleet icon. They’re a subaffiliation at best.

[bhosp]

4 members of Terra prime have names. 5 if you count Nathan Samuels (we didn’t).

(Also I’m 100% sure that Dr. McCoy has been to at least one Terra Prime meeting, and I bet Pulaski and O’Brien have too. But that’s neither here nor there. )

Chill, fella - I’ve no beef with Terra Prime; they still sport the Starfleet icon. They’re a subaffiliation at best.

If you’ve got a problem with Terra Prime I’d love to hear about it.

YO DIS GUY AINT ONE OF US HES A DIRTY VULCAN LOVER

[GooeyChewie]

Disclaimer: Any talk of adding new affiliations is purely hypothetical.

Every affiliation should appeal to somebody. Few (if any) affiliations will appeal to everybody. If we do add an affiliation and it's not one you particularly like, please understand that somebody else has probably been looking forward to the possibility of that affiliation for a very long time.

As for the "generic" argument, it could really be applied to almost any non-Federation affiliation. If not for 2E, I doubt I could name a single Dominion personnel other than Weyoun. But when the Jem'hadar show up, I know it's going to be a bad day for Sisko and crew! Likewise I might not be able to name a bunch of Hirogen off hand, but I know they're hunters, I know they collect trophies, I know they consider everybody else to be prey, and I know they use and abuse holograms for that purpose. If we can recreate that feel, then we're playing Star Trek even if we aren't playing personnel who appear in the title credits.

[Naetor]

Every affiliation should appeal to somebody. Few (if any) affiliations will appeal to everybody.

To me, this is not the issue. IMO, players are drawn to an affiliation because 1) how it plays; and 2) Trek nostalgia.

I understand the Trek nostalgia angle. Maybe some Voyager fanboy really likes the Hirogen. But, if that's the case, this can be accomplished many ways beyond dedicating ~30 cards to a new affiliation. Couldn't this also be accomplished with a suite of Dilemmas? A keyword?

My contention with a new affiliation is -- I'm sorry -- design has not been innovative in the past when doing so, maybe there's just not a lot of room for it. Temporal Transporters is a culturally-appropriated Bajoran card, Display of Wealth stuff is Borg. I wouldn't mind a new affiliation that has an innovative mechanic, but assimilating themes from another affiliation destroys cultural distinction.

[bhosp]

Every affiliation should appeal to somebody. Few (if any) affiliations will appeal to everybody.

To me, this is not the issue. IMO, players are drawn to an affiliation because 1) how it plays; and 2) Trek nostalgia.

I understand the Trek nostalgia angle. Maybe some Voyager fanboy really likes the Hirogen. But, if that's the case, this can be accomplished many ways beyond dedicating ~30 cards to a new affiliation. Couldn't this also be accomplished with a suite of Dilemmas? A keyword?

My contention with a new affiliation is -- I'm sorry -- design has not been innovative in the past when doing so, maybe there's just not a lot of room for it. Temporal Transporters is a culturally-appropriated Bajoran card, Display of Wealth stuff is Borg. I wouldn't mind a new affiliation that has an innovative mechanic, but assimilating themes from another affiliation destroys cultural distinction.

[Nerdopolis Prime]

Personally, I think a new affiliation could be interesting. But it should be a bigger set then. No way you could squeeze in Hirogen with a 45 cards set.

[durgforaday]

Karr, Decaren, Idrin, Karon, Jorik off the top of my head. Again, I loved playing them in 1E! They had a mechanic in 1E I think might be cool. You played a card to table (your core) , named a personnel your opponent commands they were the prey. Your Hirogen with Anthropology gained all their skills. Refine and modify for 2E use!! Gain a single skill, give the Hirogen (a space born hunting race) skill hole(s) they need to fill, etc. Allow the Kazon to scavenge their opponents discard pile for stuff, skills, attributes they need/do not have (they did not have transporters). Make them immune to the Borg cause the Borg thought them unworthy of assimilation. Make the Vidiians have to harvest organs to keep from dying off or to boost lower than normal attributes (integrity and strength). Just spit balling a little here Could there be a card (dilemma!?) that locks you out of your draw deck for 1 turn ( i.e. At an impasse-ish). The world of Trek is our oyster! Let us be creative and have fun!! Talk among yourselves. I will over here if you should need me, building a deck that I hope makes Nate proud!!

[bhosp]

You only know those guys because Decipher put them on 1E cards.

[monty42]

You only know those guys because Decipher put them on 1E cards.

[bhosp]

No one wants to give Phil any props for the Alliance for Global Unity graffiti he drew freehand. (It wasn’t from memory, I saw him looking it up on his phone, but it was still impressive)

[jadziadax8]

No one wants to give Phil any props for the Alliance for Global Unity graffiti he drew freehand. (It wasn’t from memory, I saw him looking it up on his phone, but it was still impressive)

It was quite nice. Very Banksy.

[GooeyChewie]

I understand the Trek nostalgia angle. Maybe some Voyager fanboy really likes the Hirogen. But, if that's the case, this can be accomplished many ways beyond dedicating ~30 cards to a new affiliation. Couldn't this also be accomplished with a suite of Dilemmas? A keyword?

Maybe. That's the route we took with Species 8472, after all. We should look for the best way to represent Hirogen, Kazon, Vidiian, Xindi and Vulcans - which may or may not mean new affiliations.

My contention with a new affiliation is -- I'm sorry -- design has not been innovative in the past when doing so, maybe there's just not a lot of room for it. Temporal Transporters is a culturally-appropriated Bajoran card, Display of Wealth stuff is Borg. I wouldn't mind a new affiliation that has an innovative mechanic, but assimilating themes from another affiliation destroys cultural distinction.

Earlier you listed Khan, holograms, thieves, Relativity and KCA as new "affiliations." Not one of them actually introduced a new affiliation. Four of the five did give players a new way to play different selections of personnel from existing affiliations. Thieves... I'm not sure why they made the list, since they really just got some support cards. The last actual new affiliation was Starfleet in To Boldly Go in 2006. Essentially, you're arguing that the CC hasn't done a great job when taking half-measures and creating pseudo-affiliations. Your argument leads me to believe we'd be better off taking the bold route and making a new affiliation rather than trying to work potential new affiliation in as non-aligned or even non-personnel.

Anytime a discussion arises about new affiliations, we eventually get around to the "innovative mechanic" requirement. It's bunk. New affiliations don't need new mechanics, they need to care about something in a unique way. Suppose, for example, Vidiians had Assault cards which start combat, but instead of scoring points or simply killing your personnel they gained skills and attributes (representing harvesting organs). Assault, combat, gaining skills and attributes are all existing mechanics, but currently nobody does it that way.

Personally, I think a new affiliation could be interesting. But it should be a bigger set then. No way you could squeeze in Hirogen with a 45 cards set.

I think Starfleet makes the best comparison, because they were introduced with no prior support. All other affiliations at least had missions with their affiliation icon prior to releasing. Of To Boldly Go's 120 cards, 43 bear the icon in some form - 2 equipment, 6 events, 2 interrupts, 1 HQ, 6 non-HQ missions, 22 Starfleet personnel and 4 Starfleet ships. Based on those numbers, we could squeeze a new affiliation into one expansion, but doing so would leave no room for anybody else, so I agree we'd want a larger expansion.

You only know those guys because Decipher put them on 1E cards.

I only know Akorem Laan, Korinas, Ikat'ika, Maihar'du and Mendak because Decipher put them on 2E cards. I mean, I remember the guy the prophets brought to the present, the Obisian Order lady who denied having a fleet, the Jem'hadar who beat up Worf, the guy who followed around the Nagus and the Romulan who revealed they had an ambassador mole, but I wouldn't remember one of their names. Likewise I might not remember a lot of Hirogen names, but I remember that time they took over Voyager and hunted everybody in the holodecks, and I remember that giant dude who captured Tuvok and Seven, and I remember they went hunting a Species 8472 being.

[monty42]

You only know those guys because Decipher put them on 1E cards.

I only know Akorem Laan, Korinas, Ikat'ika, Maihar'du and Mendak because Decipher put them on 2E cards.

A few people have made this argument so I'm taking yours as a representative to respond to.
Your right of course but your missing the point. The point is all those names you named aren't the "face" of the affilation. Those affilations have star power.
Of course there aren't affilations that consist of stars only. Everybody needs supporting characters.
Our point is that consist of only supporting characters. They're "faceless" affilations, if you will.

[Danny]

Our point is that consist of only supporting characters. They're "faceless" affilations, if you will.

Well said

[durgforaday]

If all the personnel are "supporting" characters, so what!?! If their affiliation brings some flavor to the game for anyone, winner! Somebody is playing that might not have or continuing because that was "their" favorite series or episode or like me enjoyed playing them in 1E. I get and agree with Gooey, if we can get the affiliation to "care" about the game in "their" unique way, be it a new mechanic or "their" slant on something that already exist, again winner! The same could be said for using a "new" mechanic with an existing affiliation, winner! We keep playing and exploring. that is the way of the Trek! Wisdom of the DOJO! Sorry Boss K ! All respects intended!!