[Caretaker's Guest]

Congrats to Nate. The banlist needs an update. Pattern Loss, Underlying Influence and Chula: The Game have to go. What do you think?

[pschrader]

Congrats to Nate. The banlist needs an update. Pattern Loss, Underlying Influence and Chula: The Game have to go. What do you think?

You do understand how HoF works, right? I'm pretty sure the three you mentioned will be first ballot HoF cards once their respective sets become HoF eligible. For now, they shine.

[Armus]

Correct. This year's class will come from Extreme Measures, Tacking Into the Wind, Unity, 2011 promos (looking at you, Surprise Party), and all older cards.

Chula: The Game was part of Return to Grace and will be eligible in 2024. Pattern Loss and Underlying Influence were part of Hard Time and will be eligible in 2026.

[nobthehobbit]

Congrats to Nate. The banlist needs an update. Pattern Loss, Underlying Influence and Chula: The Game have to go. What do you think?

You do understand how HoF works, right? I'm pretty sure the three you mentioned will be first ballot HoF cards once their respective sets become HoF eligible. For now, they shine.

You'd think, but Polywater wasn't a first-ballot inductee, so at this point I'd be hesitant to make any predictions about what will or won't be a first-ballot inductee.

[Caretaker's Guest]

Ok, I did actually get it wrong. I had no clue, that set rotation is a thing here... I thought "overused" cards is the criteria. For that, those three cards do clearly qualify... Have you ever faced MVB's Maquis skill dilemma deck? A nightmare on Elm Street... I'd say, HoF shouldn't need set rotation. I do not want to wait till 2026 . And ban U.S.S. Relativity. Additional problem solved .

[nobthehobbit]

It's not rotation per se, it's when cards become eligible for induction. Once a card is eligible, it will remain so forever.

[Armus]

Ok, I did actually get it wrong. I had no clue, that set rotation is a thing here... I thought "overused" cards is the criteria. For that, those three cards do clearly qualify... Have you ever faced MVB's Maquis skill dilemma deck? A nightmare on Elm Street... I'd say, HoF shouldn't need set rotation. I do not want to wait till 2026 . And ban U.S.S. Relativity. Additional problem solved .

It's not "set rotation" as I understand the term. A card has to be out for 10 years before it's eligible for retirement. That's it. There's plenty of overused newer cards (and we can have a discussion about how good or bad that is for the game) but Hall of Fame is just that: a chance to recognize and retire good cards that have had long careers.

Look at standard today and tell me that the HoF retired cards don't still see a ton of play.

[Naetor]

Limiting dilemma piles to 2x would make games more interesting. I'd say 1x but I know that will make people ree. In the games vs. MVB we both called out the exact dilemma stack a few times.

[StateofSTCCG]

HoF is lame... #justbanit

[monty42]

The banlist needs an update. Pattern Loss, Underlying Influence and Chula: The Game have to go. What do you think?

This is one of the worst takes ever.

There are some pretty good apps for these dilemmas by now.
I seems like people just want to complain and/or ban whatever's bothering them rather than to adapt their strategy and play style to the current meta.

For example not long ago, everybody was complaining about Nothing to Lose.
Since then almost everybody has teched against it and we now get to a point where it's hardly feasible to play NtL and it starts to appear less and less.

[Naetor]

The banlist needs an update. Pattern Loss, Underlying Influence and Chula: The Game have to go. What do you think?

This is one of the worst takes ever.

There are some pretty good apps for these dilemmas by now.
I seems like people just want to complain and/or ban whatever's bothering them rather than to adapt their strategy and play style to the current meta.

For example not long ago, everybody was complaining about Nothing to Lose.
Since then almost everybody has teched against it and we now get to a point where it's hardly feasible to play NtL and it starts to appear less and less.

It's not that bad of a take. Finishing a deck, then adding 12 cards so you don't auto-lose vs. 2 dilemmas feels bad man.

[sandy]

To me, the asymmetry of the cost/ease of setting up a dilemma vs overcoming it is the issue. NtL is a problem because you have to explicitly put sub par characters in your deck (e.g. Liam Bilby in Dominion) just to pass it; and you have to draw/play etc them. And even then it's trivial to ensure he's stopped with a minor filter. It's probably less egregious for other affiliations, but it's so hyperspecific for a wall.

The doublers are a similar problem, you either stack your deck with those skills or run expensive cards to bypass them, and those resources are vastly greater than the two card combo that dunks on you.

Just because there exist ways to get around the dilemmas doesn't mean the dilemmas are fine. For the effort I have to go through to ensure i don't get stopped 3 times by NtL in dominion, I can just not play a solver and do 2 missions instead. Similar arguments exist for the doublers - it makes alternate strategies relatively stronger and solvers relatively weaker.

[monty42]

It's not that bad of a take. Finishing a deck, then adding 12 cards so you don't auto-lose vs. 2 dilemmas feels bad man.

C'mon man your generalizing and you know it.
First of all this isn't an auto-lose situation. Many people have won many games against dedicated PL/UI or Chula piles even without teching especially against them.
An actual challenge is to anticipate what dilemma piles are being played and to prepare accordingly.
Not to mention that the two cards I hinted at help you against many more than just 2 dilemmas...

[Naetor]

@pfti are you PM'ing me because you want to whisper sweet nothings to me, or because you clicked PM + Quote instead of Reply with Quote?

[Caretaker's Guest]

People who play it defend it. Gell, Monty ?