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 Let's list the slipstream problems 
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
jadziadax8 wrote:
Would Slipstream be better if the IDIC Draft win conditions were applied? One space, one planet and 70 points?

Or would that pooch your desire for a shorter game, Fritz?


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It would affect time, maybe not too badly because I'm seeing a lot of decks that aren't optimised for slipstream, so they do 2 missions anyway. Buuuut I do think timed wins would increase and the game feels really tight when 30 minutes yields a FW.

However I do like the option of 1 mission being attractive:

Increases interaction opportunity because you're not normally hopping multiple locations
Increases incentive to explore bonus points
Increases impact of losing 5 points

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:34 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
Fritzinger wrote:
KillerB wrote:
Johannes Mette wrote:
:shifty: Good start! I have to think about it. But the problem is in the rules.


Threshold Format (21 counters turn 1, 30 minute time limit, 30 second 'shot clock') worked great at TCM2.

You never really want to muck around with win conditions.


did you find that the 21 counters made a difference? That seems like the same as the normal first three turns. For me the time killer is choosing dilemmas and crews from the big pile.

I can't imagine it does and just screws up a lot of once per turn stuff. The first 3 turns usually cruise by. It's the mission attempting turns that take a lot time, like you say.

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:49 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
KillerB wrote:
30 second 'shot clock'


This is the real strength of Threshold format.

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:51 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
BCSWowbagger wrote:
KillerB wrote:
30 second 'shot clock'


This is the real strength of Threshold format.

So what happens at the end of 30 seconds?


Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:13 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
T-Ricks wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
KillerB wrote:
30 second 'shot clock'


This is the real strength of Threshold format.

So what happens at the end of 30 seconds?


You yell at Neil. Then everyone else joins in, and you form a bond of friendship. Then he continues to take his time.

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:48 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
edgeofhearing wrote:
T-Ricks wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
[quote="KillerB"]30 second 'shot clock'


This is the real strength of Threshold format.

So what happens at the end of 30 seconds?


You yell at Neil. Then everyone else joins in, and you form a bond of friendship. Then he continues to take his time.[/quote]

*snerk*


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Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
edgeofhearing wrote:

You yell at Neil. Then everyone else joins in, and you form a bond of friendship. Then he continues to take his time.


I don't recall any shot clock violations at TCM2, and Neil was there. The threat of a room full of people booing you was enough of a deterrent I guess. Shame is the only thing that makes people act right.

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:41 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
Fritzinger wrote:

did you find that the 21 counters made a difference? That seems like the same as the normal first three turns. For me the time killer is choosing dilemmas and crews from the big pile.


I can't quantify how much of a difference, but with 30 minutes to play it's best just to get on with it.

That is the time killer, and in Threshold you'll just going to have to trust your instincts, pick your best dilemmas and away teams, and accept that you might just fuck up. Oh well, you lost a game, the 3-round tournament took less than 2 hours, you'll have other games to play.

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:44 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
Naetor wrote:
I can't imagine it does and just screws up a lot of once per turn stuff.


Like what? What does it screw up that we need in a 'fast format'?

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
I really like the idea of Slipstream being highlander.

1 copy limits simplifies deck building, mitigates "problem-ish" cards, and adds a bit of Trek Sense for newbies (if I "kill" a character, they aren't coming back next turn because there are 2 more copies in the deck).

I also like the 21 counter first turn kickstart.

Why not both?


Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
KillerB wrote:
Naetor wrote:
I can't imagine it does and just screws up a lot of once per turn stuff.

Like what? What does it screw up that we need in a 'fast format'? <list>

jjh wrote:
I also like the 21 counter first turn kickstart.

Even if it is uncommon, a turn 2 or even turn 1 attempt is possible in normal games. This bypasses that advantage. Going 1st vs 2nd disadvantage is amplified because one player won't have a chance to play any counter cards, dilemma support, etc. If 21 counters saved a lot of time, I wouldn't mind. But in practice this seems like it wouldn't matter much, while making a couple cards perform differently.

Also, more rules doesn't seem like the right solution for a game-mode trying to be more simplified.

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
T-Ricks wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
KillerB wrote:
30 second 'shot clock'


This is the real strength of Threshold format.

So what happens at the end of 30 seconds?

Call "stalling" and assign Turn Loss as the appropriate penalty.

IMO, anyway. May not be the ideal way to enforce a shot clock, but seems to be the only way provided for within the strictures of the OPG's tight definition of "Slipstream Format."

I know John thinks shame'll do it, and shame is a powerful, powerful tool, but you still need other tools or this will happen from time to time.

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Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:40 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
"shame is a powerful, powerful tool, but you still need other tools or this will happen from time to time."

I've played against some pretty offensive players back in my 1E days, but NEVER against anyone that would really do that. I would probably have quit the game. You see, to me it is only a game, meant to have fun. That example was not fun. :o


Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:09 am
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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
jjh wrote:
I really like the idea of Slipstream being highlander.

Why not both?


Highlander Threshold.... I like it.

3-Person Team Highlander (only one copy per team) went great at TCM2 as well.

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Post Re: Let's list the slipstream problems
Naetor wrote:
Even if it is uncommon, a turn 2 or even turn 1 attempt is possible in normal games. This bypasses that advantage. Going 1st vs 2nd disadvantage is amplified because one player won't have a chance to play any counter cards, dilemma support, etc. If 21 counters saved a lot of time, I wouldn't mind. But in practice this seems like it wouldn't matter much, while making a couple cards perform differently.

.


Now you're just being difficult. Trust the process.

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Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:58 pm
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