[KillerB]

I see some stale arguments.

I guess it's the same as what they say about 'only boring people get bored'.

[Armus]

The entire Access Denied set got me thinking about deck types I'd never seriously considered for high level play before.

Terok Nor has potential and I'm looking forward to additional dabbling.

My first such card though was Counterinsurgency Program. A 2-cost dual wall that could hit anybody? Yes please! In 2004 I memorized the list of skills so I could track anybody. Totally changed my approach to dilemma pile (and deck) building and has led to a lot of my winning decks over the years.

[LORE]

As a speed player, I really like that I can add Seven of Nine, Immersed in Chaos into my Cadet deck along with the cheap and effective U.S.S. Oberth. Another that I was glad to add to my TOS deck was Christopher Pike, Bold Commander.

[monty42]

I'd like to put a little more emphasis on this:

...Are there any new cards that intrigued you to build a new deck?...

A lot of people named a lot of cards that they liked and put in their decks. That's not really what I'm looking for. I'm tired of putting one or two new cards in the same old decks.

it's been two years since a card came out that really intrigued me...

What card was that?

That card obviously as some might have guessed is Delta Pavonis.
I think this card is sheer design brilliance not because I like to play battle, but because it allows you to deeply explore a certain underused branch of the game (battle) all without losing sight of the big picture and keeping you on track with meeting victory conditions.

Interaction decks are fun. Sadly they're underplayed and mostly suffer because as long as you interact, your not helping your own cause concerning victory conditions.

Delta Pavonis allows you to do interaction and use it to your advantage, not just the opponent's disadvantage. It compensates you for the time you lose interacting, by giving you a free mission (If you do it right) all while not making it too easy by playing into the strengths of the affilations that can attempt it (strength). That is masterful design, if you ask me.

I'd like to see similar cards for other affilations to make use of their strong suits to help them win the game without doing just the standard mission solving.

i.e. just off the top of my head a card that removes from game to let and opponent download and play a card for free for you to overcome 2 dilemmas. Or a mission that lets you return a captive with a cost of 4 or more to your opponent to overcome a dilemma... Stuff that allows you to approach the game differently than you've done for so many years.

... there are still affiliations that are dead in the water.

What affiliations and/or factions would you like to see get some attention going forward?

I'd like to see a new idea for . You know something other than just spewing out loads and loads of people and doing the old C&C tank rush.
is still in no man's land. I dig the idea of Paranoia but it's not fleshed out enough to really do something with it. I love these two but right now nobody plays them because there's really no good mission for them. We need that mission, Mike ! I know John will disagree because sometimes somebody wins something with . But they're a lot further off the map than and deserve something because I think the mega team idea was terrible. And I still believe there's good potential in Equinox, if we can revamp or reinvigorate the horrible Nucleogenic mechanic.

[monty42]

I see some stale arguments.

I guess it's the same as what they say about 'only boring people get bored'.

You are aware that this is not a right or wrong situation, right?
Something can feel stale to one person and not to the other.
I can accept that you don't think the game has become stale and I'd really appreciate if you could accept, that I feel the game has become stale.
I mean since I'm not gonna make an effort to convince you that wrestling sux...

[SudenKapala]

As a speed player,

I really like

that I can add Seven of Nine, Immersed in Chaos into my Cadet deck along with the cheap and effective

U.S.S. Oberth.

Ah! Thanks. I was thinking I'd never be able to find a single 2e card that I was excited about, since I exclusively play/collect 1e... But USS Oberth fits the bill! I have a special fondness for that ship in 1e, since a BB version was my very first ST:TNG CCG card ever. (I still have that one.) I traded it because I always liked the design in the movies and series, prior to STCCG's emergence.

So when I saw it in the 2e expansion set (I do eagerly anticipate all new Virtual cards, 1e & 2e!), I was excited about it.

Not really in a way that will satisfy OP, but -- hey, it made me happy. That counts, right!?

EDIT: Oh -- seeing new posts in the mean time. I think, nope, that doesn't count. If it's about the game and whether it's boring, well, I just can't help there.

[KillerB]

I mean since I'm not gonna make an effort to convince you that wrestling sux...

You watch cars go around in circles, careful in that glass house.

I know this isn't a binary situation, and I rarely reduce questions to that.

So let me give you a hug, and let you know your feelings are valid. Now let me treat you like a man and tell you to buck up and think outside your comfort zone. Don't be like Kris and only think of what can help your 2008 decks. There's a sickness up North of people playing time capsule decks.

I'm starting to suspect this thread is a passive-aggressive attempt to get hired by Design. Just shoot Nathan a PM. He needs all the help he can get.

[monty42]

I mean since I'm not gonna make an effort to convince you that wrestling sux...

You watch cars go around in circles, careful in that glass house.

I know this isn't a binary situation, and I rarely reduce questions to that.

So let me give you a hug, and let you know your feelings are valid. Now let me treat you like a man and tell you to buck up and think outside your comfort zone. Don't be like Kris and only think of what can help your 2008 decks. There's a sickness up North of people playing time capsule decks.

I'm starting to suspect this thread is a passive-aggressive attempt to get hired by Design. Just shoot Nathan a PM. He needs all the help he can get.

Fuck that. I just wrote a whole article on how I don't want to put new cards into old decks but want new ideas! Discount Terra Prime, I haven't seen a lot of new ideas recently.
As far as your suspicions go, nope. I barely have time do do the nerd jobs I have now. Not that I particularly care about them anymore. I certainly don't have any ambitions to design.

[KillerB]

I apologize. The game is stale for some of you. That's because of the people around you, not the game.

You certainly won't get any help on these boards. For creativity and imagination this place is a toxic environment.

[Armus]

Maybe I misunderstood the ask, but I stand by Counterinsurgency Program as a game changing card. It rewards good skill and good in-game decisionmaking.

Anything that rewards good play is good for the game. Anything that rewards lazy play is bad for the game.

There's no shortage of lazy cards. The LEGO/ Team design wave of a few years ago is a prime (though hardly the only) example. When, after not playing for a year, I could take NeuStarfleet, add A Sight for Sore Eyes/At What Cost + Julian Bashir/ These are the Voyages, and go 3-1 at a Regional event, that's a case in point of Ben's argument of a stale game gussied up with different color cards.

He's not wrong, and the root cause is lazy design - not lazy designers (I'm sure they worked very hard), but cards that require minimal thought to put together and combine with existing generic cards that are strictly better than their alternatives and that result in a deck that is better than more creative or original alternatives.

To his credit, John worked very hard to change that paradigm, and his sets show that change. Delta Pavonis is a new paradigm. As was Counterinsurgency Program. As was Terrasphere 8, which I haven't mentioned before but still consider a really underrated deck build.

John's not wrong that the recent sets aren't bad, but Ben's not wrong that the foundation that John is building on does have some inherently stale elements due to previous design decisions.

What's the solution? Well, Hall of Fame has definitely been a step in the right direction. The game is more fun when you aren't seeing the same dilemmas no matter what deck your opponent is playing. Deck building is more interesting when you don't have decades old combos to fall back on. The combination of retiring old overplayed cards with non-lazy Design strikes me as the best way to keep the game fresh. Hopefully that's what happens.

PS: If you're curious about Hall of Fame and want to try it out, I have a HoF Online Regional kicking off this Friday (5/3). Anyone who wants a fresher version of the game is encouraged to give it a try! Pre-register here! #shamelessplug

[SudenKapala]

Is that specifically a 2e problem? I rarely get mixed up here, but what I see at 1e, is that a few very recent new members are stirring things up -- at least, asking critical and out-of-box questions. Myself, I'm a Traditional person and have no designer-mind at all, and am thus not very much help when it comes to "un-boring"(!?) the game. (That comment on time-capsule decks certainly was spot-on for me! But I like the game that way, and so do my friends.) That doesn't mean I don't like to see innovation going on here, though; I really appreciate reading the new people's quesntions and suggestions and the veterans' replies and feedback. I learn from it. At least there's movement and new influx of ideas. (Or sometimes, of old ideas by new people. That, too.)

So -- my question(s). How does that go for 2e? Are there some new people sometimes, with new ideas? Does that help, or are they the same ideas each time that don't work? Or doesn't design / upkeep of 2e work that way?
(If so, no need to explain in detail for me. )

[KillerB]

Correction Brian: 'was' building on.

[Armus]

Correction Brian: 'was' building on.

[Faithful Reader]

I'd like to put a little more emphasis on this:

...Are there any new cards that intrigued you to build a new deck?...

A lot of people named a lot of cards that they liked and put in their decks. That's not really what I'm looking for. I'm tired of putting one or two new cards in the same old decks.

KCA. You can just use the HQ and give yourself two more mission slots or you can use the other tools in Shattered Mirror and build a deck leaning kCa or Kca or even kcA(B).

Terra Prime will be a new decktype. You can augment it, but it's really hard to do so.

[Caretaker's Guest]

Thought Maker amazed me. Working on it for years now...

I loved Martial Law. 3 draws, a RoA#6 for DS9-Earth... Blow it up with Sloan or Cartwright to get downloads from equipped Nog and Jake after use. Working on that for a long time now, too.