Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#474797
Welcome to Will of the Collective VII: Bottom's Up! This time around we're designing a non-unique character from the bottom up, starting with faction and ending with the story.

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We look pretty done now, right? We've voted on all the things, and now there are words and numbers and icons all over this card.

Well, there's a really big step that's missing: playtesting! Now, normally, playtesting occurs behind the scenes, but you've already seen this card. Print it out, put it in a deck, and play that deck! Post your experiences with this card in this thread. Is the card awkward to use? Are the skills useful? Where is the power level?

Once we've got some playtest data, we can vote on what, if anything, needs to be changed about the card. So, go, play some games with young Ms. Frankenstein! If you want a PDF with three copies of this card, PM me your email address and I'll email one to you.

You know what, everyone loves an incentive. If you take a picture of you playing a game with this card against another human and post it in this thread, I'll send you a foil from my trades collection.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#474882
I put three copies in my TNG Demo Deck; it turned out, I could replace two Davies and one Regana Tosh without running short on any skills. In theory, this deck should be a pretty average deck for Shelley's ability; including the three of her, the deck is 40% [TNG] [AU] (and no [TNG] [Pa]). Then I did some test draws.

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The very first draw was literally a best case scenario; I was light on Disadvantage Into Advantage, and used her to both reduce Picard's cost to zero and to be the second 4-cost [TNG] personnel for his ability. I didn't expect her to be nearly that useful.

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Unfortunately, that experience was not replicated with subsequent test draws (not all draws pictured). In particular, it was frustrating that, while she can reduce the cost of other copies of herself, it is seldom fruitful to do so since the first copy is always full price. Even just going down to three cost would make a big difference.

I do still need to play some games with her; if she remains awkward in a game environment, I may also try her at three cost.
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By Jono (Sean O'Reilly)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Pioneer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#474921
The only problem with reducing her cost is a lot of [AU] [TNG] personnel play off being with other 4-cost personnel so a reduction to 3 would hurt that.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#474940
Jono wrote:The only problem with reducing her cost is a lot of [AU] [TNG] personnel play off being with other 4-cost personnel so a reduction to 3 would hurt that.
There is one thing that [TNG] decks and dedicated [AU] [TNG] decks have in abundance and that is 4-costers. Dedicated [AU] [TNG] decks need low cost support.
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By Jono (Sean O'Reilly)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Pioneer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#474942
monty42 wrote:
Jono wrote:The only problem with reducing her cost is a lot of [AU] [TNG] personnel play off being with other 4-cost personnel so a reduction to 3 would hurt that.
There is one thing that [TNG] decks and dedicated [AU] [TNG] decks have in abundance and that is 4-costers. Dedicated [AU] [TNG] decks need low cost support.
Maybe in that case, make Shelley cost -X if you command Y number of [AU] [TNG] personnel. (I only put X and Y because I’m not putting a number there.)
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#474948
Jono wrote:
monty42 wrote:
Jono wrote:The only problem with reducing her cost is a lot of [AU] [TNG] personnel play off being with other 4-cost personnel so a reduction to 3 would hurt that.
There is one thing that [TNG] decks and dedicated [AU] [TNG] decks have in abundance and that is 4-costers. Dedicated [AU] [TNG] decks need low cost support.
Maybe in that case, make Shelley cost -X if you command Y number of [AU] [TNG] personnel. (I only put X and Y because I’m not putting a number there.)
In that case you'd already have a sufficient amount of [AU] [TNG] which are generally 4-costers. You're making things more complicated than they are.

Reducing her cost is no big deal.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#474972
Gentlemen, this is interesting theorycrafting, but theorycrafting is all we've been doing since June 1st. It's time to put the card in a deck, shuffle up the deck, and give it a try. The limited data I've generated so far indicates that, perhaps, being 4-cost isn't that valuable, but maybe I'm playing the card in the wrong deck? And I haven't tried it at three cost yet either. Try the card, see what happens.
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By Mogor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#474984
The fact that she is 4 cost and also non-unique yes does make the first at a bit of a hefty price but the skill matrix is highly beneficial when I've done some testing in my Battleship deck. As effective she is 2 cost with a fantastic range of skills
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By Ashbey (Anastasia Kalashnikova)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#474988
No, if you made a crazy Frankenstein girl via popular voting - stick with your choices for 4 next years. No playtesting should be allowed until the next election :)
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#474990
Ashbey wrote:No, if you made a crazy Frankenstein girl via popular voting - stick with your choices for 4 next years. No playtesting should be allowed until the next election :)
:lol:

So many popular vote jokes AND Russia collusion jokes all in one post! :P

Better not... don't wanna catch a ban... :shifty:
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#475028
Mogor wrote:The fact that she is 4 cost and also non-unique yes does make the first at a bit of a hefty price but the skill matrix is highly beneficial when I've done some testing in my Battleship deck. As effective she is 2 cost with a fantastic range of skills
Thanks very much for the report!
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#475088
[SD] Science:

As a psuedo-2-cost 7-7-6 with 6 good skills, Shelley is a pretty good card. The downside of her is that you may not have an AU personnel in hand to achieve her discount. Below are figures from a simulation I ran with the following parameters:

1) 35-card deck
2) 3x Shelley in the deck
3) 5x (blue), 10x (purple), and 15x (red) other AU personnel that Shelley could discount (not including herself)
4) Ignoring "opening hand" 7-card draw

This figure represents the proportion of time you will have drawn a given number of discountable AU personnel by the time you draw your 1st Shelley. For example, if you have 15AU personnel in your deck, around 2/3rds of the time you will have drawn 5 or fewer AU personnel by the time you draw your first Shelley.
aus.jpeg
aus.jpeg (133.58 KiB) Viewed 1418 times
This figure shows the number of additional draws you will need to make to draw an AU personnel after you drawn a Shelley -- points at 0 imply you have already drawn one. For example, if you have 10 AUs, by the time you have drawn a Shelley ~80% of the time you will have drawn a AU personnel within 5 or fewer cards.
draws.jpeg
draws.jpeg (133.38 KiB) Viewed 1418 times
Conclusion: with even a handful on AU personnel you will often be able to get Shelley's discount.
Last edited by Naetor on Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#475238
Since I wouldn't ask you guys to do anything that I wouldn't do:

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I was using the same edited TNG Demo Deck, Amanda was testing <redacted>. Thanks to summer camp for making this testing session possible!

Opening hand:
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First thought: "Well, best case scenario is to have her when I don't have Disadvantage Into Advantage."
Second thought: "Oh, there aren't any AU personnel there."

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Fortunately, Wesley showed up so that Shelley had something to do.

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In fact, this was another of those weird scenarios where she was the only person activating Wesley's ability. I drew a lot of high cost people in the second half of this game.

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Beverly joined as a 4-cost back-up for the next attempt.

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Once the Disadvantages showed up, she became a lot more awkward to use. Since she's not very fruitful to use on herself, the second and third copies sat in my hand since my AU personnel were typically discounted by DiA. Then, on my last turn, I could play Picard (-4 with DiA), who downloaded Riker, who was discounted by Shelley.
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In terms of gameplay, her Cunning 7 came into play a few times, though her skill list wasn't as useful against a pure attrition deck. Her cost being greater than 2 was handy for protection from In Development, though two times she got selected third for Miner Revolt. Geology was her only mission skill in this deck.
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