[Latok]

Can I ask if this card, while powerful in an elimination bracket, would be so good in a swiss bracket? I know Greg did well in Day One, but I never got to play his deck, and Oliver's and Justin's decks would seriously struggle when they're likely to just get modified wins.

If it's only a real issue in games where you're going for a timed win rather than the full win does it really need errata? Asking cause I actually am curious.

Counter intuitively the deck is better in Swiss because that discourages MW decks which means it encourages solvers. The faster your deck is empty and all of your people are dead, which will happen faster when you attempt more, the faster I win by double deckout. You want to build up as much as you can and go for one big turn, which is where TR-116 really shines by making that super hard to do.

[Fritzinger]

If you can shut down the dilemmas, are you in a strong position to win against this?

[Broshak]

If you can shut down the dilemmas, are you in a strong position to win against this?

I built a DS9 deck to try to counter the dilemma pile/TR116 with insane kill prevention (Medical Teams, U.S.S. Sao Paulo, Julien Bashir, "Frontier Physician", Ezri Dax, Resourceful Counselor, Emergency Transporter Unit). You can stop most of that working with A Few Minor Difficulties and Dereliction of Duty. The more you add to counter his tricks it almost always ends up costing you more to prevent it. The most effective card against this deck is Odo, Constable but Dereliction of Duty always hits him no matter how protected you keep him.

As Greg said if you opt for speed vs tools you play directly into the decks hands because he's still going to make you discard everything and you eventually run dry. If you put all the tools in you can't go faster than he sets up because you can't really stop him from just playing a ship and DLing people with Tal. In most games I would get 2 missions done but it would cost pretty much the entire deck, at that point he just solitares to victory. The real problem comes when people aren't as quick as Greg and I are so games will hit the time limit and thats where the issues lie.

[Armus]

1 Tal and 2 Rifles...

Would an Interruptless deck work? It's a lot harder to kill people when you can't download everybody and their gun as needed, right?

That said, this sounds like a great meta call for an interrupt heavy meta. I'm ok with there being downside to Cardie balls speed.

[Caretaker's Guest]

1 Tal and 2 Rifles...

Would an Interruptless deck work? It's a lot harder to kill people when you can't download everybody and their gun as needed, right?

That said, this sounds like a great meta call for an interrupt heavy meta. I'm ok with there being downside to Cardie balls speed.

I played no interrupts to hit Cardies with A challenging Revision. That worked great, I do not fear Cardies. My hope against Greg's Deck was having so many people in abundance and removing that Rifle with Far-seeing Eyes and the Centurion. Worked twice but failed against Oliver. Notice that Greg nearly took out a deck with over FOURTY personnel! FOURTY. That is remarkable.

[Broshak]

1 Tal and 2 Rifles...

Would an Interruptless deck work? It's a lot harder to kill people when you can't download everybody and their gun as needed, right?

That said, this sounds like a great meta call for an interrupt heavy meta. I'm ok with there being downside to Cardie balls speed.

No interrupts is fine, but you basically forfeit the ability to interfere with him. At that point you can't stop his imperial entanglements and it doesn't really matter too much that he didn't Tal all his people out cause he has them anyway. I made this point in another thread awhile ago but even using something like Holding Cell is pretty ineffective because it takes far too long to set up anymore. By the time you have 6 people and can waste 4 counters to play it, it's either going to get hit by reprimand instantly because it requires no setup, or hes already setup and doesn't care at all about playing interrupts.

[Fritzinger]

If you can shut down the dilemmas, are you in a strong position to win against this?

I built a DS9 deck to try to counter the dilemma pile/TR116 with insane kill prevention (Medical Teams, U.S.S. Sao Paulo, Julien Bashir, "Frontier Physician", Ezri Dax, Resourceful Counselor, Emergency Transporter Unit). You can stop most of that working with A Few Minor Difficulties and Dereliction of Duty. The more you add to counter his tricks it almost always ends up costing you more to prevent it. The most effective card against this deck is Odo, Constable but Dereliction of Duty always hits him no matter how protected you keep him.

As Greg said if you opt for speed vs tools you play directly into the decks hands because he's still going to make you discard everything and you eventually run dry. If you put all the tools in you can't go faster than he sets up because you can't really stop him from just playing a ship and DLing people with Tal. In most games I would get 2 missions done but it would cost pretty much the entire deck, at that point he just solitares to victory. The real problem comes when people aren't as quick as Greg and I are so games will hit the time limit and thats where the issues lie.

Gosh well doll much for my antissassin DS9 deck.

[Latok]

If you can shut down the dilemmas, are you in a strong position to win against this?

The answer is definitely yes but the counter question is how are you doing that against Dereliction of Duty?

[Danny]

The answer is definitely yes but the counter question is how are you doing that against Dereliction of Duty?

Isn't that the same question as how do you counter any dilemma? SRR, Genesis Effect, so kind of dilemma removal (Krim if playing DS9/Bajor, Gem, etc).

[Latok]

The answer is definitely yes but the counter question is how are you doing that against Dereliction of Duty?

Isn't that the same question as how do you counter any dilemma? SRR, Genesis Effect, so kind of dilemma removal (Krim if playing DS9/Bajor, Gem, etc).

If you want to take the question out of context, sure.

[Danny]

If you want to take the question out of context, sure.

Not really out of context.

The question "If you can shut down the dilemmas, are you in a strong position to win against this?"

An answer given referred to making a kill-prevention DS9 deck.

You then questioned countering DoD. I answered with a bunch of cards playable in all decks (and a specific card for DS9 decks). Quite in context I would say

[Latok]

If you want to take the question out of context, sure.

Not really out of context.

The question "If you can shut down the dilemmas, are you in a strong position to win against this?"

An answer given referred to making a kill-prevention DS9 deck.

You then questioned countering DoD. I answered with a bunch of cards playable in all decks (and a specific card for DS9 decks). Quite in context I would say

Yeah I see why you think it is relevant you're only considering half of the game, one deck.

[Danny]

Yeah I see why you think it is relevant you're only considering half of the game, one deck.

Actually, I was only considering one card - the card you specifically asked about counters for

[Latok]

Yeah I see why you think it is relevant you're only considering half of the game, one deck.

Actually, I was only considering one card - the card you specifically asked about counters for

Oh right, so well out of context then. You're spending those resources to counter Dereliction so what are you doing about Unsound Logic, Simulated Prey, Once More Unto the Breach. I asked how your countering the kill dilemmas with Dereliction around and you think just countering Dereliction is a legitimate answer...

[Danny]

You're spending those resources to counter Dereliction so what are you doing about Unsound Logic, Simulated Prey, Once More Unto the Breach. I asked how your countering the kill dilemmas with Dereliction around and you think just countering Dereliction is a legitimate answer...

If you're countering DoD, then don't the aforementioned gametext/abilities of the cards in the "insane kill prevention" deck (Bashir, Ezri, Medical Teams, Sao Paulo) step up and pull their weight?