Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#487637
Finally got a chance to watch this review last night. Thanks for making it, it helped pass the exercise bike time! I generally agree with your takes on a lot of the cards' power levels.

For draw deck cards, I've used Letant and Strategic Tug of War so far - SToW was great, Letant was only used for his skills/cunning (he's nice at Sensitive Search and Khitomer). In the dilemma pile, Rascals was very effective, and The Phase was decent.

My not-official stance on Truculent Statecraft* is that it blocks only whole dilemma prevention (eg Original Thinker/Knowledge and Experience), not dilemma effect prevention (eg Sole Leader of the Empire/The Central Command). That's how I would rule it works in a tournament.

It is awkward that it doesn't address the "and overcome" of "prevent and overcome", but I suspect that if the card said "dilemmas cannot be prevented and overcome" we might be asking if it prevented all dilemmas from going under missions for any reason.

*TRUCK-you-lent
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#487708
edgeofhearing wrote:Finally got a chance to watch this review last night. Thanks for making it, it helped pass the exercise bike time! I generally agree with your takes on a lot of the cards' power levels.

For draw deck cards, I've used Letant and Strategic Tug of War so far - SToW was great, Letant was only used for his skills/cunning (he's nice at Sensitive Search and Khitomer). In the dilemma pile, Rascals was very effective, and The Phase was decent.

My not-official stance on Truculent Statecraft* is that it blocks only whole dilemma prevention (eg Original Thinker/Knowledge and Experience), not dilemma effect prevention (eg Sole Leader of the Empire/The Central Command). That's how I would rule it works in a tournament.

It is awkward that it doesn't address the "and overcome" of "prevent and overcome", but I suspect that if the card said "dilemmas cannot be prevented and overcome" we might be asking if it prevented all dilemmas from going under missions for any reason.

*TRUCK-you-lent
Glad you liked it. Since making the video I've seen/made a lot of new strategies. I like this set more every game.

Cards I've warmed up on since the video: Tosk, Imperial Occupation/Invasion Plans

Cards I've cooled down on: Cripple Engines/Target the Main Generator

I have the opposite take on Truckulent. I think it should just hit the stop/kill prevention, if it does anything. Hitting P&O is inserting gametext into the card. It's unfortunate we don't really know how this works since it could (or could not) be a meta defining card. I suspect the next errata person will need to clarify. I haven't had it come up in a game yet, though I am playing it in one of my decks -- I guess I'll just flip a coin on what it does.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#487722
Naetor wrote:I have the opposite take on Truckulent. I think it should just hit the stop/kill prevention, if it does anything. Hitting P&O is inserting gametext into the card. It's unfortunate we don't really know how this works since it could (or could not) be a meta defining card. I suspect the next errata person will need to clarify. I haven't had it come up in a game yet, though I am playing it in one of my decks -- I guess I'll just flip a coin on what it does.
If it prevented stop/kill prevention, then I believe the wording would be "effects of dilemmas cannot be prevented". The wording used definitely targets whole dilemma prevention only, the weird part is what it means when the preventing card also says that it overcomes the dilemma.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#487725
edgeofhearing wrote:If it prevented stop/kill prevention, then I believe the wording would be "effects of dilemmas cannot be prevented". The wording used definitely targets whole dilemma prevention only, the weird part is what it means when the preventing card also says that it overcomes the dilemma.
I agree. Truculent Statecraft says dilemmas cannot be prevented, which means it only stops text which specifically prevents dilemmas, and nothing else.

This wording does cause some weird interactions. For example, if you use Future Geordi's ability while facing (and not meeting the requirements of) Gomtuu Shock Wave, you fail to prevent the dilemma but do overcome it, which means your personnel end up stopped but the dilemmas goes beneath the mission.

I really wish Decipher had never used the phrase "prevent and overcome." I would prefer they had just used the word "prevent" and added a clarification or rule that prevented dilemmas get overcome unless specified otherwise. Then we wouldn't have the verbose wording of Split Second or any confusion over Truculent Statecraft.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#487728
I think the easiest way of thinking about it is to treat prevent and overcome as one thing.

Logically (Prevent AND Overcome).

Since it's an AND conditional, all parts must be true for it to be true. Therefore, if a dilemma cannot be prevented by card effect, it also cannot be overcome by that same card effect.

I'm actually not sure if there's a rules- based support for that logical conclusion, but it does make it much more straightforward and understandable, so if there isn't, maybe there should be?

Also, preventing the effect of a dilemma isn't the same as preventing the dilemma. So if you're about to get hit by Gomtuu, Living Legend Kirk can't help you but The Central Command will still work to get the solve (while also still getting the Gomtuu on your ship). This much at least should be pretty clear.
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#487730
GooeyChewie wrote:
edgeofhearing wrote:If it prevented stop/kill prevention, then I believe the wording would be "effects of dilemmas cannot be prevented". The wording used definitely targets whole dilemma prevention only, the weird part is what it means when the preventing card also says that it overcomes the dilemma.
I agree. Truculent Statecraft says dilemmas cannot be prevented, which means it only stops text which specifically prevents dilemmas, and nothing else.
I guess I see what you are saying, but what does prevent a dilemma mean other than prevent the effects of the dilemma?
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