[Danny]

During a game yesterday (Sunday 8th), I and my opponent were both at 95 points and each, amongst our completed missions, commanded a completed planet mission and a space mission. I intended to end it in classic TNG style, by dropping a Bartending Guinan, giving everyone 5 points, and ending in a True Tie.

Another player hypothesised that this wouldn't be the case, and that I, the Guinan dropper, would actually win. We couldn't find anything to support this, and so it was agreed/ruled as a TT (the outcome I'd intended).

Does anyone have any thoughts or, indeed, rulings about this that'd support the hypothesised FW outcome?

[Armus]

Id say tie since both players score points as part of the same action.

[GooeyChewie]

You finish processing any responses before you check to see who wins. That's why you can't win with Traverse Ion Storm from 60 points - you go up to 100, then lose 5 for each other completed mission, and end up below 100 before checking to see if you win the game. So I would say TT.

[MidnightLich]

You finish processing any responses before you check to see who wins. That's why you can't win with Traverse Ion Storm from 60 points - you go up to 100, then lose 5 for each other completed mission, and end up below 100 before checking to see if you win the game. So I would say TT.

[Armus]

You finish processing any responses before you check to see who wins. That's why you can't win with Traverse Ion Storm from 60 points - you go up to 100, then lose 5 for each other completed mission, and end up below 100 before checking to see if you win the game. So I would say TT.

So does this logic also apply to Edo Probe?

For example, if my opponent is on 95 points and I'm on, say, 65 and attempting a 35 point mission with an Edo Probe on it that's been there since a previous turn, if I solve that mission, do I win 100-95 (assuming I meet all victory conditions) or, assuming my opponent also would have all victory conditions, does he score the 5 from Edo Probe before the game ends and we get a true tie?

[durgforaday]

Not to step on your toes Armus but we had an Ego Probe question as well. If Edo is placed on my mission and I fail the mission attempt the turn that it was put on, does my opponent score the points right then or later when I complete the mission ? Thanks and sorry again Armus

[Armus]

Not to step on your toes Armus but we had an Ego Probe question as well. If Edo is placed on my mission and I fail the mission attempt the turn that it was put on, does my opponent score the points right then or later when I complete the mission ? Thanks and sorry again Armus

I know this one. The card says "when this mission is completed..." so no points are scored until that happens. Who scores the points depends on whether or not Edo Probe hit that turn or a previous turn.

[Danny]

If you're attempting a mission, and your opponent has you face an Edo Probe that turn, then that turn, it'll go one of two ways:

1) If you complete the attempt, you score 5 points ("When you complete this mission, if this dilemma was faced this turn, score 5 points.")
2) If you fail the mission, your opponent will score 5 points. ("Otherwise, your opponent scores 5 points.")

For example, if my opponent is on 95 points and I'm on, say, 65 and attempting a 35 point mission with an Edo Probe on it that's been there since a previous turn, if I solve that mission, do I win 100-95 (assuming I meet all victory conditions) or, assuming my opponent also would have all victory conditions, does he score the 5 from Edo Probe before the game ends and we get a true tie?

In your above example, if your opponent's on 95 points, and you're attempting a mission that's had an Edo Probe on it from a previous turn, either
a) they've scored the 5 points already, taking them from 90 to 95.
b) they were on 95 points and have forgotten to score the 5 points.

The "design intent" was that it was only 'active' on the turn that it was faced. If this isn't clear, and there's an element of ambiguity to it, then it should probably have a specific ruling made, or be made clearer after a thrashing from the Errata stick.

[Armus]

If you're attempting a mission, and your opponent has you face an Edo Probe that turn, then that turn, it'll go one of two ways:

1) If you complete the attempt, you score 5 points ("When you complete this mission, if this dilemma was faced this turn, score 5 points.")
2) If you fail the mission, your opponent will score 5 points. ("Otherwise, your opponent scores 5 points.")

For example, if my opponent is on 95 points and I'm on, say, 65 and attempting a 35 point mission with an Edo Probe on it that's been there since a previous turn, if I solve that mission, do I win 100-95 (assuming I meet all victory conditions) or, assuming my opponent also would have all victory conditions, does he score the 5 from Edo Probe before the game ends and we get a true tie?

In your above example, if your opponent's on 95 points, and you're attempting a mission that's had an Edo Probe on it from a previous turn, either
a) they've scored the 5 points already, taking them from 90 to 95.
b) they were on 95 points and have forgotten to score the 5 points.

The "design intent" was that it was only 'active' on the turn that it was faced.

Ok, that's not how it reads. See my above answer to Durgforaday on how I read it.

[Danny]

Ok, that's not how it reads. See my above answer to Durgforaday on how I read it.

Like I said, if there's any ambiguity over how people read it over the card's intent, there are procedures in place to deal with it.

Open question: has anyone else read the card in Brian's way? Having read (or at least, looked at) the card for months, I'm struggling to see it in that light.

[edgeofhearing]

Ok, that's not how it reads. See my above answer to Durgforaday on how I read it.

Like I said, if there's any ambiguity over how people read it over the card's intent, there are procedures in place to deal with it.

Open question: has anyone else read the card in Brian's way? Having read (or at least, looked at) the card for months, I'm struggling to see it in that light.

Having read and looked at the card for months, I've always read it Brian's way.

[Danny]

Having read and looked at the card for months, I've always read it Brian's way.

Yikes.

I can see it now. You and Brian read the point trigger as the completion of the mission (in both instances), whereas I read it as the facer scoring the points if they complete it that turn, while the opponent scores at the end of that turn if they haven't completed.

Yeah, I think this is going to need a ruling.

[Jono]

The trigger to have you or your opponent score points is when the mission is completed. “When you complete...”

The player who encountered the Edo Probe scores 5 points if they complete the mission on the same turn the dilemma is solved.

If the mission is completed on a subsequent turn, the opponent who the dilemma belongs to will instead score the 5 points.

What gets tricky is if the dilemma is moved to another mission by Change of Venue. In that case it will allows be a point gain for the opponent who moved the dilemma since it was faced on a previous turn. Edo Probe does say “Place this dilemma on this mission” and “When you complete this mission” - so moving it can be a free 5 points for you.

[Danny]

Huh. I'd just treated it as all the other dilemmas that state "Otherwise..." - that is, its secondary effect is immediate.

[durgforaday]

When we played it the other day I read it as Armus and EdgeofHearing do. My opponent read it as Danny does. Hence the question. It shall be played as when the mission is completed unless Amber says different So shall it be written........
Sorry! Just to clarify, if I do not complete the mission then my opponent does not get the points!?!? :cross

Correct