[Gorgo Primus]

I think Latok meant that you could do that if you actually won. As in, when you win you can pay to get a prize you would have earned if you want. There is no way to forfit and then buy a prize under that model. A good option in my opinion.

I'm also quite pleased with digital prizes for a digital game. Give the winners a forum badge or an avatar upgrade or something. All the things TK has traditionally run have had prizes of that kind and they're really cool! If TK asked to do this kind of thing for Masters in the past, and I've fully understand the implications of his post, then I'm sad to hear he was turned down for the sake of the CC's revenue. If the CC doesn't make money off Online Masters if we hold it without fees, how much do you think they make when they don't hold it at all? (It's $0)

I'm glad we eventually got Masters despite all that, but if that is also a hidden issue surrounding an even higher level of event coming to Online then maybe we should bring that out into the open. I'd still say $0 and a free event would be better for the CC than $0 and no event.

But for what it is worth if enough people want physical prizes I'm also just flat out willing to pay a fee for (generally only for) a high level event like Masters or Continentals et al. I appreciate that Kris decided to take the hit and pay for everything himself (I really really do, it was very kind and considerate of you), but if we had been asked to pay for some or all of that cost I'd have personally agreed to do so and I don't think I'd have been the only one.

Bosskamiura, while you're here what do you think about all the other issues brought up here with regard to length of time to do a tournament, the kinds of things online TDs need to deal with, etc?

[Naetor]

Still, expecting a better alternative to emerge is wishful thinking.
.

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?

If someone is going to put in the effort to make custom 2e software, they should just make 3e and monetize it.

[Gorgo Primus]

Pretty sure making 3E and monetizing it would lead to all 4 games getting a very quick C&D and the end of everything here.

[Spectre9]

Even non-profit crowdfunded ventures aren't really allowed because the people doing the work are technically profiting from the development of the software.

Axanar really put a line in the sand. Paying employees to make things with Trek IP is a big no no.

[Naetor]

Pretty sure making 3E and monetizing it would lead to all 4 games getting a very quick C&D and the end of everything here.

Well, if you design software that people would be willing to buy, you'd sell it to a publisher and/or acquire a license. Or call it Star Track starring Gene Luck Pickard and Mr. Woof!

[Neelix]

Or you do something like LACKEY or TTS or OCTGN that isn't made for a specific game, but just so HAPPENS to work really well for Star Trek CCG

[Spectre9]

Indeed

Any oil princes?

[Fritzinger]

Baffled by people's enthusiasm for TTS, I played sw destiny on it and it wasn't a great experience. Otoh I am almost daily building and testing decks in lackey.

Maybe for 1e it is better.

The best looking lackey alternative I found was called Vassal. This is just in terms of it being built for games that aren’t magic clones.

[Neelix]

I also did NOT like playing Star Wars Destiny on TTS. Table Top Simulator seems much more built for board games and some miniatures games.

[Gorgo Primus]

So it has been a week or so without replies, and the issue never really got resolved in any way, so let's recap:

- I explained and showed how there is objectively no way to possibly cheat online due to anything to do with Lackey as a program.

- I was told time and strains on TDs were a major obstacle if cheating wasn't

- I explained the many different ways that TDs are equally if not more strained at an in person event as Online, and offered a myriad ways to hold a tournament online that would address any time concerns relative to physical; others jumped in to do the same.

- There was a good debate back and forth on what a TD would have to actually do to run a tournament Online and I suggested we ask someone who has done it before/would be willing to run this hypothetical Online 'Continentals'.

- There was a very short discussion on what the practical difference this would have over Masters and what the name would be that didn't seem to go anywhere because I don't think anyone is super invested in what the name is.

- I was then told that cheating on Lackey was a major concern despite everything on the very first page that objectively proved otherwise, and when that was pointed out yet again was told that 2E couldn't have anything higher than Masters because 1E and Tribbles might not be able to do it with us

- I asked why the large 2E Online community should be held back because of potential issues the smaller 1E Online community might or might not have; also pointed out that the Tribble Online community is practically non-existent

- I was basically told a variation on 'it's tradition to have all three together when physical', which seemed like a really weak argument to me for how to do things Online

- TK brought up that he offered to TD higher level events but was turned down because he didn't want to charge and have mailed prizes, OP said a major issue is that nobody wants to pay for mailed prizes and oddly cited an example from a physical event for it (I think)

- People asked why we needed physical prizes for Online events if that was a major issue, offered alternative examples of how prizes could be paid for or replaced with digital ones, and questioned that nobody would pay in the first place

- Finally there was a sidetrack about if the real issue was that Lackey wasn't a fictional better program (or the unsuited TTS that nobody who currently plays Online regularly uses for 2E) that we should use instead

The order of events may be a bit jumbled here or there, but I think that covers everything to the best of my recollection. Feel free to point out what I missed or if I am mistaken on anything here in that regard.

So... where does that leave us? Because after all that I feel like there has still been no good justification given for not allowing us to have higher level events than Masters if there are TDs willing to manage it and enough interest by players.