[Neelix]

Again, I ask just as others already have, how can this tournament be confused with a level of tournament that doesn't even exist?

North American Continentals is the NA Championship level event.

[sandy]

Maybe the CC should rebrand it's official events to prevent confusion? The Tower of Commerce calls our top tier events "Sovereign Class"; I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that "Continentals" and "Worlds" were the "protected" names - this is why there's "not a worlds" this year, and why we changed our name from Worlds.

North American Championships can apply to many things. I was under the impression that using "generic" words wouldn't be misunderstood - this isn't the Continental Championship - it's the sovereign class championship event for North America.

What is the goal here? If I have to rebrand all my events to not include the word championship, or the words "north American" or "European", that's a non starter and I'll stop using the forums to advertise events.

For future reference, it might be less antagonistic to PM me before editing my post (or, in fact, talking to me via *any channel*).

[sandy]

FWIW, still haven't heard anything from OP director who presumably makes the call on this sort of stuff. Unless I'm supposed to treat all green badge people as a monolith and one speaks for all?

[LORE]

FWIW, still haven't heard anything from OP director who presumably makes the call on this sort of stuff. Unless I'm supposed to treat all green badge people as a monolith and one speaks for all?

Sandy, my understanding is you have questions or would like to talk about unsanctioned tournaments and I infer from your activity over the past day or so that these questions revolve around your ability to advertise these events here. I responded to this post earlier this morning asking you to send your questions to me and you have not. I am not sure where the disconnect is.

[The Prefect]

Maybe the CC should rebrand it's official events to prevent confusion?

So, if I understand this correctly, you want to advertise a non-CC event on the CC website, and you want the CC to rebrand its events to avoid confusion with yours?

[sandy]

I assumed the CC would understand that different words mean different things. Is it my fault for assuming reading comprehension being a fundamental skill? Note that we already changed it to not include "worlds"...

Is there anyone who was under the impression that this event was a cc sanctioned event? Was there literally a single person who was confused? It's listed as a local in the tournament database.

Or is this just making up yet another straw man argument to place artificial obstacles on promoting a trek event?

Again, what's the goal here? I am trying to work within the set of, quite frankly, arbitrary and contradictory rules to promote an event that myself and other have put time and money toward. If that isn't something the CC wants to have happen because it might be confusing to a hypothetical person (to be clear, confused with an event that also literally doesn't exist...), then I question the CC's commitment to actually growing the game.


Re: OP - Does the director of OP see their role as a purely passive one that doesn't engage with the community at all? When I first mentioned this tournament, and when it was announced officially, and when I posted this - all of those are opportunities to start a dialogue around cooperation and raise any potential issues. Passive aggressively "moderating" my post really leaves a great impression.

If you don't want me to work with you, that's fine. But I've been 100% transparent in my goals and motivations only to be consistently questioned and attacked by people who aren't interested in helping. I want to work with the CC, but I am not going to be stonewalled into compromising my event to fit arbitrary and indefensible guidelines.

[Nerdopolis Prime]

But I've been 100% transparent in my goals and motivations only to be consistently questioned and attacked by people who aren't interested in helping.

Sadly

welcome to the forums.

[The Prefect]

If you don't want me to work with you, that's fine. But I've been 100% transparent in my goals and motivations only to be consistently questioned and attacked by people who aren't interested in helping. I want to work with the CC, but I am not going to be stonewalled into compromising my event to fit arbitrary and indefensible guidelines.

I'm not sure how someone asking you not to promote a non-sanctioned event as a North American Championship on the 2e Game Play forum constitutes an attack? Can you connect the dots for me?

Also, no one's saying you have to change the name of your event. What they are saying is that you can't promote it as a North American Championship here. Again, please tell me how that's unreasonable, or arbitrary.

You could petition Organized Play to have this event sanctioned. Have you done so?

I really feel like a lot of people here would be interested in helping if they didn't perceive your organization as being in competition with the CC. You speak of the CC being antagonistic. Did it ever occur to you that choosing this forum specifically to promote an unsanctioned "North American Championship" might also be viewed as antagonistic?

[sandy]

I'm not sure how someone asking you not to promote a non-sanctioned event as a North American Championship on the 2e Game Play forum constitutes an attack? Can you connect the dots for me?

No one asked me to do anything. My post was edited without any message to me beforehand. I believe I stated explicitly that this is why I didn't want to use the forums to advertise events. I was convinced otherwise by various people who thought the previous incidents were one-off and not a pattern of behavior.

If the narrative you're pushing was accurate - i.e. I broke some rule about promotion of non-sanctioned events, and was asked to take it down or post somewhere else - I don't think my reaction would be the same. Unfortunately, the facts do not reflect this narrative.

Also, no one's saying you have to change the name of your event. What they are saying is that you can't promote it as a North American Championship here. Again, please tell me how that's unreasonable, or arbitrary.

Well - the issue with the tournament was the name - "North American Championship" is somehow too similar to "North American Continentals"; obviously the owners of the site can police whatever content they want, and they're under no obligation to allow me to post anything - however, my understanding from conversations with you and others (including members of the CC) was that they would be supportive of any attempt to run events, as long as I didn't attempt to replace or compete with the CC. Now, given that there are no events run by the CC that this would compete with or replace, it's unclear to me the reasoning behind not permitting me to promote my event here.

Changing the name seems like the only way to be in compliance with the latest set of rules.

You could petition Organized Play to have this event sanctioned. Have you done so?

I could, if I wanted this to be a sanctioned event. I do not. The restrictions around having a sanctioned event aren't something I'm interested in. Specifically, I want to be able to run the tournament in a manner I choose with respect to format and prizes.

I really feel like a lot of people here would be interested in helping if they didn't perceive your organization as being in competition with the CC. You speak of the CC being antagonistic. Did it ever occur to you that choosing this forum specifically to promote an unsanctioned "North American Championship" might also be viewed as antagonistic?

Competition with the CC over what? There are no CC tournaments that we're "counterprogramming". We're not pulling players from a tournament, or discouraging them from attending CC tournaments. We don't design cards. We don't have a website or forums that we direct people to. So can you clarify why this perception of "competition" is?
I've answered this question multiple times, in multiple formats - written, in person, and on stream. I have no interest in taking over anything the CC is doing. if the CC was running more tournaments, I'd never have created the Tower of Commerce in the first place.

It did not occur to me that promoting a tournament on a gameplay board would be antagonistic, no. Who am I antagonizing exactly? The organizers of the "official" 2020 North American Continental Championship tournament?

[The Prefect]

If you don't want me to work with you, that's fine. But I've been 100% transparent in my goals and motivations only to be consistently questioned and attacked by people who aren't interested in helping. I want to work with the CC, but I am not going to be stonewalled into compromising my event to fit arbitrary and indefensible guidelines.

I'm not sure how someone asking you not to promote a non-sanctioned event as a North American Championship on the 2e Game Play forum constitutes an attack? Can you connect the dots for me?

Also, no one's saying you have to change the name of your event. What they are saying is that you can't promote it as a North American Championship here. Again, please tell me how that's unreasonable, or arbitrary.

You could petition Organized Play to have this event sanctioned. Have you done so?

I really feel like a lot of people here would be interested in helping if they didn't perceive your organization as being in competition with the CC. You speak of the CC being antagonistic. Did it ever occur to you that choosing this forum specifically to promote an unsanctioned "North American Championship" might also be viewed as antagonistic?

I am working for a few more hours, but I want to dive into this - I'll steal a page from your book and have a placeholder here

Fair enough. I appreciate the effort. I am also happy to chat one-on-one if you feel it would be helpful. And, for what it's worth, even though I don't agree with the way you've chosen to market the event in this specific instance, I sincerely hope your event is successful and that everyone has fun and is safe. We are, after all, one community. I mean that, and I hope you understand that is sincere.

[sandy]

Updated and answered!

[The Prefect]

So can you clarify why this perception of "competition" is?
I've answered this question multiple times, in multiple formats - written, in person, and on stream. I have no interest in taking over anything the CC is doing. if the CC was running more tournaments, I'd never have created the Tower of Commerce in the first place.

I won't argue the rest of the post - I don't agree with it but I'm not sure there's much point. But I do want to come back to this because we discussed this same question in our Zoom meeting and I don't think we ever arrived at an answer I understood.

The CC has a years-long history of running multiple events across several countries and continents. These events are driven largely by player demand and can vary greatly by region. For example, the Atlanta playgroup has been consistently running events monthly for years, well before you came back to this game. Other region may not be quite so active. But it's not as if we haven't been playing.

The CC only stopped encouraging and sanctioning in-person events, especially high-level events, this year because of the unique threat posed by COVID-19. That you would choose right now to start your organization and focus specifically on in-person play seems to indicate that you feel the CC was wrong to decide to prioritize the health of players first. I don't think you're that callous, so the most charitable alternative conclusion I can draw is that you want to compete with the CC where running in-person events is concerned. John said as much publicly before he was banned from these forums - your (then unnamed) organization intended to replace CC Organized Play.

Now, after our last chat via Zoom, I recommended to Organized Play (OP) that they reach out and have a discussion with you because I felt you were less of a threat than I originally feared. I don't know whether that happened or not. If it didn't, I feel that was a missed opportunity. If I gave you the impression that the CC would have no objection to you advertising events here, I also made it very clear to you, many times, that I wasn't speaking on behalf of the CC. I also didn't anticipate that you'd be naming the event in a way the CC might object to.

Let me ask you this: did you ask anyone from OP whether or not they'd have an objection to you advertising an unsanctioned event on the CC forums and calling it the North American Championships? I ask only because if I wanted to promote something on your website that you had nothing to do with, I know I would extend you that courtesy.

[The Prefect]

So can you clarify why this perception of "competition" is?
I've answered this question multiple times, in multiple formats - written, in person, and on stream. I have no interest in taking over anything the CC is doing. if the CC was running more tournaments, I'd never have created the Tower of Commerce in the first place.

Also, there's the question of what happens when COVID-19 is all over.

Let's do a thought experiment.

Suppose the CC gives you everything you want right now. You can advertise any event here you like. You can call it whatever you want. You can run it however you want.

What happens when the CC starts running high-level sanctioned events again?

Surely you understand that players have a limited amount of time and resources to spend, so they will be making a choice whether to attend your events or the CC's. What happens if events are scheduled close to one another? Do you want me to believe you or your representatives wouldn't encourage players to attend your event? So, obviously there would be competition.

Now competition is fine, even healthy. But, if a market environment is what you're after, does it makes sense to expect to be allowed to advertise on a competitor's site?

[The Prefect]

Sorry for spamming, this will be my last. I found this answer very curious.

I could, if I wanted this to be a sanctioned event. I do not. The restrictions around having a sanctioned event aren't something I'm interested in. Specifically, I want to be able to run the tournament in a manner I choose with respect to format and prizes.

Exactly what format limitations do you find chaffing?

There is no limitation on prize support I'm aware of. I buy and give away prizes at my own high-level events and have for years. I've probably spent thousands of dollars of my own money over the last 5 or 6 years doing so. Never once have I been asked by the CC not to do that. So what limit on prize support do you think you're bumping up against?

[sandy]

Are you claiming that the CC has nothing to do with star trek ccg tournaments they don't run?
I thought they were stewards of the game as a whole - more players, regardless of what tournaments they attend, is good for the game.

If the position of the CC is that only their sanctioned events are allowed to be promoted on this site, then that leaves me no choice but to not promote events here and to move my activity elsewhere, possibly to the point of having a separate website and forum. This isn't something I want to do, but I will if that's the policy of the CC.

I would love for there to be choices around events, so people can play in their houses for free with their friends or have big 100 person tournaments in larger venues. If the CC's reaction to me actively trying to grow the game is to act protective of its brand and not act as an inclusive hub for the game, then I'm not sure I want to contribute to it.