Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#538466
winterflames wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm Hold up, did i miss something? How can you have 6 guinan? I thought 2e had a 3 copy per title limit?
He’s calling Friendship and Good Will the 4th, 5th and 6th copies of Guinan, since they seem to serve the same purpose of letting you score points.

I say “seem to” because part of the point of Guinan in the Bomb deck is to score points early (ideally on turn 1) with no prior set-up. Given the relatively low number of [TNG] personnel in that deck type, it won’t reliably be able to play FaGW all that early, which leads me to believe such decks will not run it as back-ups to Guinan. This card will see more play in TNG decks which favor [TNG] personnel specifically.
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#538472
Is turn 2 not considered early?

Typical Jaegerbomb drops Vintner, 2-cost Lwax, Guinan, and Data on turn 1. Now add AWC?, FaGW, and Inyo and you're talking 27 counters of personnel on turn 1.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#538474
winterflames wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm Hold up, did i miss something? How can you have 6 guinan? I thought 2e had a 3 copy per title limit?
3 Guinan, 3 Friendship and Good Will (which has the same effect as Guinan).
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#538517
Naetor wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:34 pm Is turn 2 not considered early?

Typical Jaegerbomb drops Vintner, 2-cost Lwax, Guinan, and Data on turn 1. Now add AWC?, FaGW, and Inyo and you're talking 27 counters of personnel on turn 1.
I should have been more clear. You identified the biggest problem with the Jaegerbomb as the possibility of not drawing Guinan, and thus that the best decks had to run Vintner. In the scenario you describe, FaGW does nothing to address these problems. You're still running Vintner, and you got Guinan.

On the other hand, if you didn't get Vintner or Guinan on turn 1, you probably aren't exactly speeding your way to three [TNG] personnel. The catch-22 for the Jaegerbomb deck is that the games in which FaGW could be most helpful are also the games in which you are least likely to be able to play FaGW.

That's not to say that FaGW will be useless for the deck. I just also don't see it increasing the power of the deck in a significant way. But hey, maybe I'm wrong about that. I encourage you to try it, find out, and let us know what you find. If it turns out to be a problem, I'll gladly support an errata to reign the deck in. (Honestly I'd support limiting Inyo to placing the [DS9] personnel on an Earth where they could be played anyway.)
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#538643
Naetor wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:59 pm The biggest problem with relying on a Guinan 5-point engine was even with 3x Guinan, it wasn't reliable enough to draw one. And so the best decks had to run Vintner, which limits the mission options available- and makes combining with a 2nd HQ (eg Inyo) a very tight squeeze to 100 points. The other issue was that you could only really use her once, so if you wanted to fuel some early game Loaded for Bear but your opponent could also lose 5 points, you were limited as well.

Jaegerbomb is a tier 1 deck. When it fails it usually is from a bad draw.

In Standard, with 6x Guinan most of these former weaknesses vanish. You can now run Jaegerbomb out many more combinations of 3 non-HQ missions. You can run it out of this mission set for 2-50 pointers or this played out set.

For HoF, it is frustrating because players specifically voted this card out of the pool only to be reintroduced in a different form. Basically you can now run a slightly neutered Jaegerbomb in that format now.

Whether this makes games more or less interesting is TBD.
Thx for bringing my frustration to a point, Nate.

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