Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#549523
Terra Nova, Reestablish Communications

So, are its attribute requirements established when you begin the mission attempt, and remain unaffected by any dilemmas that are overcome during the mission attempt?
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#549531
Danny wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:10 pm Terra Nova, Reestablish Communications

So, are its attribute requirements established when you begin the mission attempt, and remain unaffected by any dilemmas that are overcome during the mission attempt?
In the context of Terra Nova's own attribute requirement reduction, that's correct. Only the dilemmas which were already beneath your missions at the start of the mission attempt matter. Dilemmas which are overcome (or somehow removed from beneath your missions) mid-attempt do not matter.

Of course, other cards (such as Romulan Impersonator) can still alter the attribute requirements.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#549536
Naetor wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:25 pm Checks A Time to Stand design team members.
Haha, I was about to say that. :P

I also noticed that Betazed is from the same set but has a different wording for more or less the same effect. What's up with that, @Danny ?
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#549538
GooeyChewie wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:52 pm
Danny wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:10 pm Terra Nova, Reestablish Communications

So, are its attribute requirements established when you begin the mission attempt, and remain unaffected by any dilemmas that are overcome during the mission attempt?
In the context of Terra Nova's own attribute requirement reduction, that's correct. Only the dilemmas which were already beneath your missions at the start of the mission attempt matter. Dilemmas which are overcome (or somehow removed from beneath your missions) mid-attempt do not matter.

Of course, other cards (such as Romulan Impersonator) can still alter the attribute requirements.
IMO, the frustrating part about its timing is, if you forget to announce it at the start of the attempt, a certain type of player will tell you that it's too late now that you're trying to solve and actually looking at the mission's text.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#549547
edgeofhearing wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:05 pm
GooeyChewie wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:52 pm
Danny wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:10 pm Terra Nova, Reestablish Communications

So, are its attribute requirements established when you begin the mission attempt, and remain unaffected by any dilemmas that are overcome during the mission attempt?
In the context of Terra Nova's own attribute requirement reduction, that's correct. Only the dilemmas which were already beneath your missions at the start of the mission attempt matter. Dilemmas which are overcome (or somehow removed from beneath your missions) mid-attempt do not matter.

Of course, other cards (such as Romulan Impersonator) can still alter the attribute requirements.
IMO, the frustrating part about its timing is, if you forget to announce it at the start of the attempt, a certain type of player will tell you that it's too late now that you're trying to solve and actually looking at the mission's text.
I thought most of that breed is no longer active in the community...

Am I wrong?
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#549548
Based on Lucas's observation, it never occurred to me before, but with Betazed's wording, I guess I can choose to execute that text at any point during the mission attempt. Like if an opponent uses Repressed Message or Stupefy (corner case, I know), I can wait until my personnel are about to complete the mission and say that the trigger "When you attempt this mission..." (which should really be "When your personnel attempt this mission..."; players don't attempt missions) is still available. That makes the alternate trigger for Terra Nova make sense. I just wonder why both weren't changed.

Probably for lore. Missions have so little space to play.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#549555
And just think: we have 4 more years of this stupidity at minimum before these cards are HoF- eligible.

Lotta first balloters in that LEGO Starfleet set....
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#549565
Naetor wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:25 pmChecks A Time to Stand design team members.
I know, right? What a bunch of chancers :shifty:

monty42 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:58 pm Haha, I was about to say that. :P

I also noticed that Betazed is from the same set but has a different wording for more or less the same effect. What's up with that, @Danny ?
No idea. I was... er... more into... *checks least problematic part of ATtS* the non-Starfleet personnel department?
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#549617
Armus wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:34 pm And just think: we have 4 more years of this stupidity at minimum before these cards are HoF- eligible.

Lotta first balloters in that LEGO Starfleet set....
Here's Lego Starfleet's dirty secret: it isn't real.

I won't argue that they aren't/weren't over the power curve, or that there aren't some cards in the cycle that I won't be glad to wave goodbye to when it comes time to HoF them.

For example, Jupiter is too good and fits too neatly with the theme of the rest of the cards and with their skills and attributes and other missions. When I first sat down to build a deck with the ATtS SF, I was excited to take a new look at SF-icon missions.... but then the two missions (Jupiter moreso than Terra Nova, that 4 span has made me consider other missions, as it has made me play a third ship more than once) that worked best with them came in the very same set.

If that's all you're saying is Lego, that their missions are too easy to choose, sure, but that's true of a lot of affiliations in 2e, going way back to Decipher times. And, I find, even when missions are removed in HoF, there are just new "best sets" of missions, they just were never specifically designed that way.

But if you're saying it about the dilemmas-under-missions SF cycle as a whole, I disagree. They're certainly generally powerful cards, and a lot of people built decks with those cards and did reasonably well in the following regional season. But, and this is important, the vast majority of those people did not win those regionals. Lots of different people, different skilled players and deckbuilders, took a swing at the faction and missed. Maybe their misses fell too high at middling to second place finishes, but that's a power level concern rather than being too easy to build.

Take, for example, this event, which is, IIRC, the first regionals+ event that ATtS SF took first place at. (And even then, only on day 1. Geoffrey Peterson copied the day 1 deck - though not the dilemma pile - for day 2.) Both my deck and Matt Kirk's deck used the ATtS SF cards, but there's a significant difference in their finishes, and it's 100% not because I'm a better player - it's because I found a better way to build a deck for them (as evidenced by Matt's finish in this event with a deck that more closely matched mine).

If decks built with a faction have variable performances based the choices made by deckbuilders, I'm arguing that the decks definitionally do not build themselves. Players who let the decks build themselves didn't do as well. Perhaps they should have done worse, but that again is a power curve issue.

But, maybe I just love Lego:
Image
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#549621
Jupiter is perhaps the most OP mission in the game - it completely negates [SF] primary downside (weak ships) and gives them an ultra easy space mission to go with their [H] text. I can't imagine any [SF] wouldn't include it as their #1 mission.

On top of that, the "dilemma under a mission to make us stronger" theme is the most win-more mechanic in the game besides pre-errata Aid Legendary Civilization.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#549622
Naetor wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:01 pm Jupiter is perhaps the most OP mission in the game - it completely negates [SF] primary downside (weak ships) and gives them an ultra easy space mission to go with their [H] text. I can't imagine any [SF] wouldn't include it as their #1 mission.

On top of that, the "dilemma under a mission to make us stronger" theme is the most win-more mechanic in the game besides pre-errata Aid Legendary Civilization.
Agreed on both counts.

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