Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#552672
A beardless Riker's just been spoiled on FB, and his Dissident keyword raised some interesting questions on our WhatsApp group:

Who were Picard and his crew dissenting against? The Federation Council? Okay, that tracks, but what did Picard think that Riker and La Forge could achieve by going to Starfleet (the uniformed space force maintained by the Federation)? Is that not like going to the army to complain about something the government's done?
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By The Prefect (Michael Shea)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Prefect
2E Sector 001 Regional Champion 2023
#552674
A very good question, which this bit of dialogue, spoken by Picard might help answer:
They won't begin the procedure while the planet is still inhabited. So, ...our job is to keep the planet inhabited. Will. Geordi. Go back and put a face on what's happening here. Make the Council 'see' the Ba'ku. It's too easy to turn a blind eye to the suffering of a people you don't know.
Now, the movie doesn't get into specifics about where the Federation Council fits in the Starfleet hierarchy, but we imagined an entity like Starfleet would most likely be under civilian control, consistent with what we know about representative democracies and what we've seen depicted on screen.

Memory Alpha has this to say about the Federation Council:
The Federation Council was the unicameral legislature of the United Federation of Planets. Seats on the Council were filled by representatives from the various Federation members. ... In 2375, Starfleet Admiral Dougherty claimed that the Federation Council had been responsible for the decision to forcibly relocate the Ba'ku from their world in cooperation with the Son'a. After the USS Enterprise-E contacted the Federation, the Council announced they would perform a top-level review of the situation and halt the relocation of the Ba'ku.
So, the TNG Dissidents are dissenting against their superior officers and the Starfllet Admiralty and taking their case (through Riker and Geordi) over their heads to the civilian overseers of Starfleet. Riker and Geordi aren't "going to Starfleet", they are dissenting against Starfleet (and, in a sense, The Council itself) and going straight to the Council to appeal their decision to allow the Ba'ku to be moved.
Last edited by The Prefect on Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#552687
The Prefect wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:52 pm So, the TNG Dissidents are dissenting against their superior officers and the Starfllet Admiralty and taking their case (through Riker and Geordi) over their heads to the civilian overseers of Starfleet. Riker and Geordi aren't "going to Starfleet", they are dissenting against Starfleet (and, in a sense, The Council itself) and going straight to the Council to appeal their decision to allow the Ba'ku to be moved.
That'll teach me to go from memory-alpha (who said of Picard's crew "Each is prepared to risk their career to stand behind Picard, who grudgingly accepts their help. He orders Riker and La Forge to take the Enterprise out of the Briar Patch to contact Starfleet Command and let them know the details of Dougherty's plan.") hence me thinking they were going to Starfleet.

So, Picard's telling them to go to the Federation Council? But Dougherty says that the plan's approved by the council.
PICARD: I won't let you move them, Admiral. I will take this to the Federation Council.
DOUGHERTY: I'm acting on orders from the Federation Council.
Doesn't that mean that Picard's taking the case to the Council to let them know about... the Council's plans?

Like I said, this isn't a judgement on the cards, but the film.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#552701
Naetor wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:26 pm I think it's so you can JaegerNaetorbomb 3 HQs with Guinan, Listener and Kira Nerys, Iliana Ghemor.
If you come out of this set with a deck more broken than mine, I'll be very disappointed. :P
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By Gorgo Primus (Benjamin Rostoker)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#552709
I guess the rationale is that the Federation Council approved the plan without knowing all the details about what it entails or the precise situation/reality of what is happening on Ba'ku? Eh, it's not a very good movie, so I wouldn't worry too much about how utterly incompetent it makes everyone in it look. *shrug*
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#552735
Gorgo Primus wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:29 pm I guess the rationale is that the Federation Council approved the plan without knowing all the details about what it entails or the precise situation/reality of what is happening on Ba'ku? Eh, it's not a very good movie, so I wouldn't worry too much about how utterly incompetent it makes everyone in it look. *shrug*
I think that's definitely possible. I love watching elected officials pontificate on the merits of a bill and then, at the end of the interview, be asked if they read it and answer, "No." There's also the possibility of it being a security issue. In Charlie Wilson's War, Tom Hanks mentions that certain intelligence bills are put up for a vote without the entire Congress getting to look inside. Outside the Intelligence committees, they just get to see the price tag. Without knowing more about Federation politics (Ooh! New idea for a show: Star Trek: West Wing.), I'm just head canon-ing.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#552741
I always interpreted it as the Enterprise crew making the details available to the public, and the political pressure would cause the Council to pull back their support.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#552742
GooeyChewie wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:51 pm I always interpreted it as the Enterprise crew making the details available to the public, and the political pressure would cause the Council to pull back their support.
So... Serenity.

Can't Stop the Signal.... :shifty:
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#552754
Gorgo Primus wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:29 pm I guess the rationale is that the Federation Council approved the plan without knowing all the details about what it entails or the precise situation/reality of what is happening on Ba'ku?
GooeyChewie wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:51 pmI always interpreted it as the Enterprise crew making the details available to the public, and the political pressure would cause the Council to pull back their support.
This makes it make much more sense. :thumbsup:
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