Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#554479
It's Wednesday! We're more than halfway through the week. Since we are over the hump, let's look at a question!



This week's question is somewhat inspired by the recently released card Omag. Originally he did not have the Voyager Icon until a playtesting session where a Voyager player lost their ship to vegetate under Ferenginar for the game, effectively locking a player out.

Voyager gets built in protection by virtue of the icon, so much so that it has spread to other ships that need that protection. There are some cards that lend themselves to Voyager such as Resilience. Even some ships that can initiate battle at your headquarters cannot entirely shut you down.

It is a big deal when there is nowhere to play your personnel. I know because I was at a high level event where my only method of playing personnel was put out of commission and I basically picked my nose for the rest of the game.

How much protection should Voyager have? What card should have 'Non-Voy added tp it? What card could stand to have it removed? What are your thought on the subject? Let us know!
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Second Edition Balance Manager
By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Second Edition Balance Manager
 -  
2E World Top 16 2019
Nemesis
2E German National Champion 2020
#554492
Faithful Reader wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:54 pm This week's question is somewhat inspired by the recently released card Omag. Originally he did not have the Voyager Icon until a playtesting session where a Voyager player lost their ship to vegetate under Ferenginar for the game, effectively locking a player out.
Actually the real reason they added the [Voy] icon to Omag was Relativity, IIRC.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#554544
It's funny that the [Voy] icon on ships has come to mean a ship that can't be messed with. I can follow the evolution, but it makes me wonder if A Few Minor Difficulties should have just said "(except U.S.S. Voyager)" or maybe a new icon should've marked "protected" ships. As it is, stuff like Chell, Good Shepherd, and Telek R'Mor can cause some bleed. I definitely don't think it's super problematic right now, but it could possibly be. And it's only going to keep getting more complicated. It's just another aspect of the game that I would like to iron out. I know there are always players that hate it when we revisit and revise the decisions of the past, though.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#554665
But right now all [Voy] ships helpfully are from Voyager...
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
2E British National Second Runner-Up 2019
#554672
Related to this: should anything gain the [Voy] icon? Any takers for Sphere 117?
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#554724
The more I think about it, the more I like a new "lone/mother ship" icon. (I don't know what we'd actually name it.)

Voyager gets it. Equinox gets it. Relativity gets it. Olarra gets it. Hell, that's a great aide to Sphere 117. And anything that shuts off ship abilities is now "non-(new icon)" instead of "non- [Voy]." I mean, is that better than if we even make a ship sourced from (say) TOS that has an ability that would be devastating (and not just inconvenient) to shut off and we put a [Voy] icon on it to protect it?

Right now, Sphere 117 getting [Voy] would be weird with Telek R'Mor, but not unwieldy. I mean, there are other ways to get other affiliations in a Borg deck already and it could kind of make story sense.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
2E British National Second Runner-Up 2019
#554729
The Guardian wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:47 pm The more I think about it, the more I like a new "lone/mother ship" icon. (I don't know what we'd actually name it.)

Voyager gets it. Equinox gets it. Relativity gets it. Olarra gets it. Hell, that's a great aide to Sphere 117.

What would the criteria be for who gets it? There's a slew of other ships with similar "plays aboard" game text (i.e. Assimilator, Damaged Starship, I.K.S. Voq'leng, Ivory Tower). Would they auto-qualify?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#554732
Danny wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 4:13 am
The Guardian wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:47 pm The more I think about it, the more I like a new "lone/mother ship" icon. (I don't know what we'd actually name it.)

Voyager gets it. Equinox gets it. Relativity gets it. Olarra gets it. Hell, that's a great aide to Sphere 117.

What would the criteria be for who gets it? There's a slew of other ships with similar "plays aboard" game text (i.e. Assimilator, Damaged Starship, I.K.S. Voq'leng, Ivory Tower). Would they auto-qualify?
Hell no to all of these.

They all require HQs so if they get shut down you just have to go back to playing people at your HQ and picking them up. Maybe annoying, but hardly game- ending
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
2E British National Second Runner-Up 2019
#554733
Armus wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:38 amHell no to all of these.

They all require HQs so if they get shut down you just have to go back to playing people at your HQ and picking them up. Maybe annoying, but hardly game- ending

Olarra and the Sphere require an HQ too.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#554735
Danny wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:49 am
Armus wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:38 amHell no to all of these.

They all require HQs so if they get shut down you just have to go back to playing people at your HQ and picking them up. Maybe annoying, but hardly game- ending

Olarra and the Sphere require an HQ too.
The problem with Sphere is it can blank half your people if it gets hit.

So yeah you can still play, but you have a bunch of skill-less stat sticks.

I actually think that one can be solved through Design... make an event that lets [Bor] Dissidents score points and nuke A Few Minor Difficulties - also, if Two of Nine isn't regulating that shit to begin with you built your deck wrong, especially with Quintessence staying in play again.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#554743
Armus wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:38 amHell no to all of these.

They all require HQs so if they get shut down you just have to go back to playing people at your HQ and picking them up. Maybe annoying, but hardly game- ending
:thumbsup:
Armus wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 9:08 am The problem with Sphere is it can blank half your people if it gets hit.

So yeah you can still play, but you have a bunch of skill-less stat sticks.
:thumbsup:

And the issue with Olarra is the staffing in a Hologram deck.

It is an interesting issue and we very well might be able to be solved partly by Design. Still, I just don’t like using [Voy] to mean “do not touch.” It just feels like using the broad side of a wrench to hammer in a nail because that’s the tool you already have. It works, but that’s not what it was meant to do and there’s probably a better tool.

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