Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
 
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#556790
This gama quadrent mishion is the mishion flip of

Salvage Dominon Ship
Torga IV

and Mirrors optional Domminion requirments for that mishion.

so why dose the federation have this as an available mishion? they already have a persona of this mishion, should it not be dominion only?
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#556792
I guess it's kinda thematic:

Salvage Dominion Ship is a [Fed] [Kli] mission where they try to get the ship (with different [Dom] requirements to rescue the Founder)

and

Strained Negotiations is the [Dom] [Fed] mission where they're both trying to negotiate/fight their way out of it the situation they're in.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
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2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#556793
That's an interesting question.

Torga IV, Salvage Dominion Ship honestly feels more like the early portion of the episode (Feds find the ship, try to retrieve it, and have to negotiate under fire; Dominion lays it on thick and, if they only were to be honest about what they needed, could give aid to an endangered Founder) while Torga IV, Strained Negotiations feels more like once the negotiations are underway and the sides are feeling each other out. The Feds are going to negotiate in good faith and the Dominion has the option to do the same or use sneaky force.
 
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#556796
If thats the case then, then why does the original mission require diplomacy?

If its as you're saying, theme wise, its supposed to be the early part of the episode, then once the shells start flying surely there's no need for diplomacy?
After all, they get out of the mission by simply waiting it out. As far as the situation is concerned, its the dominion not the federation that is trying to do the diplomacy. Also its also why the flip side requires 2 diplomacy to attempt to get Sisko to allow the dominion in to get the founder. So its a bit surprising that the feds have access to the mission with those requirements, as its showing that force is required, and in previous missions where there is a OPFOR, they have their own requirements as an option.
 
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#556798
yes I definatly agree that it feals like the second half of the epesode.

even the Mishion requrments seem to indecate this.
BUT
the title and sub-title indecate that this is a situation beween on force the dominon and another force the DS9 crew (feds).

however this sort of situation in offical cards is normaly done as frection X - Requirments and then in the sub text OPFOR gets its own requrements. It being done this way so as to interact with the area command cards such as wall of ships.

just feals a bit stange with it being called tence nogotations, the Dominions outlook, where as if it had been calls ship seige (or somthing like that) that would have indecated it being the federations veaw point.
 
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#556800
well yes but in that case wouldnt it be

DOM with Fed, klinon as optional.

themicaly.

Also yes this dose indeed feal as the second half of that episode, but from the titling and sutitaling it idecates that we a looking at this from the domminions point of veaw. a good way to increase the number of mishions available considering the progams that inspired this game are long finished.

in which case shouldn't the Feds and Klinons (cuss WORF) have an otional alt requirments. cuss now they are the OPFOR where as in the persona mishion its clear that the Dominon are the OPFOR group,
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#556856
These might be valid points and concerns, but as Salvage Dominion Ship was released 18 years ago, and by Decipher, sadly little-to-nothing can be achieved by pointing this out at this stage.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#556859
Morty_jhones wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:44 pm Also yes this dose indeed feal as the second half of that episode, but from the titling and sutitaling it idecates that we a looking at this from the domminions point of veaw.
Both Sisko ( [Fed] ) and Kilana ( [Dom] ) were involved in the strained negotiations.

Granted, it is a little weird that the original mission also covers the negotiations aspect with Diplomacy. That weirdness stems from how Decipher approached missions. They never repeated a location, so they tried to cram the whole story onto one card. Newer missions (2013 and on, when the CC started using locations for titles) will focus on a particular aspect of the mission.
 
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#557495
yea they did have a strange way of looking at mishions initaly, but if you pay atention that changed in the later disipher releces as it became more aperent that the show was runing down and there were no plans to continue, thus limmiting there material.

just sweeping it unde the table as, ho thats how they did it then... ignores the strange paradox's caused by trying to continue the game and not being willing to ask questions of the game desine.

this is one of many odities caused by trying to add to the system whill not concidering or revewing the consequnces of it.

the fact that this persona of the mishion DROPS a faction from atempting it is just one of them.

this mishion should have been eather [Dom] only or [Dom] [Fed] [Kli] . the fact that it is not is what caused my query in the 1st place.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#557604
Morty_jhones wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:29 am yea they did have a strange way of looking at mishions initaly, but if you pay atention that changed in the later disipher releces as it became more aperent that the show was runing down and there were no plans to continue, thus limmiting there material.
There are 27 missions which have "attempt and complete" alternate requirements. Decipher produced 25 of those missions. Of those, 17 were produced in Call to Arms. So it is true that they tended to move away from missions with alternate requirements.

That trend partly comes from the fact that Call to Arms introduced the Borg and the Dominion, the two affiliations most likely to work directly against other affiliations. At the same time, I believe Decipher realized these missions had significant drawbacks. The space taken up by the alternate requirements leaves little room for other abilities. And from a story standpoint, these missions do little to nothing to explain why they have the alternate requirements. The Borg aren't actually trying to Destroy Transwarp Hubs with those alternate requirements, for example.
Morty_jhones wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:29 amjust sweeping it unde the table as, ho thats how they did it then... ignores the strange paradox's caused by trying to continue the game and not being willing to ask questions of the game desine.

this is one of many odities caused by trying to add to the system whill not concidering or revewing the consequnces of it.
On the contrary, the CC did ask questions of the game design. Specifically, they asked if the way Decipher had always designed missions was the best way. And the answer was no. The new (as of 2013) way of designing missions provides a lot of advantages. We can create different missions which happened in the same location, as with Empok Nor (Deadly Salvage) and Empok Nor (Negotiate Prisoner Exchange). And we have more room to show opposing goals for different affiliations, such as with Ba'ku Planet (Safeguard Civilization) and Ba'ku Planet (Collect Metaphasic Particles).
Morty_jhones wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:29 amthe fact that this persona of the mishion DROPS a faction from atempting it is just one of them.

this mishion should have been eather [Dom] only or [Dom] [Fed] [Kli] . the fact that it is not is what caused my query in the 1st place.
Why? The strained negotiations were between Kilana and Sisko. They are [Dom] and [Fed] respectively, so both of those affiliations make sense. While the Klingons may have had an interest in salvaging a Dominion ship*, they probably would have preferred to battle with the Jem'hadar rather than to negotiate with Kilana.

*Adding [Kli] to the original mission is a bit of creative liberty on Decipher's part in the first place. Worf is most definitely [Fed] in this episode, so no [Kli] personnel were present.
 
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#557673
yes adding [Kli] is a bit odd for Warf, but then if they didn't there wouldn't be hardly any mishions for
[Car] Garak
[Baj] Narise
[1E-Fer] Quark

eather

they added those afileations if the charicter was there so that there were mishions for those fractions.
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