Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#559720
My last post got taken down for "divulging privileged information" - a debatable point at best - but here's something that I don't need to be an insider to figure out:

2e Participation has declined precipitously in the last year.

"But Brian, of COURSE participation has declined, we're still in the middle of a global pandemic!" you might say, and you'd be right, COVID is definitely still a factor.

But the numbers seem to indicate something else is in play.

To wit:

The number of 2e tournaments annually from 2017-2019 was around 200 per year (193 in 2017, 211 in 2018, 212 in 2019). During that same period, the number of 1e tournaments was around 100 per year (110 in 2017, 105 in 2018, 110 in 2019). So in the beforetimes, 2e had a roughly 2:1 advantage in event count over 1e.

Then 2020 happened.

COVID put a dent in organized play across the board, and event counts in both games fell significantly in absolute terms - 119 2e events, 59 1e events - but that 2:1 ratio was maintained.

Now we're in 2021, and COVID is definitely still a thing, but something interesting has happened. Looking at completed + scheduled events for 2021, the count currently stands at 66 2e events, and 57 1e events.

So even accounting for the pandemic, 1e participation is roughly the same as last year, but 2e participation has declined an additional 45% from last year's already-COVID-reduced numbers, and the 2e:1e ratio is now 1.16:1 - i.e., 2e and 1e are approaching parity.

I'm not sure if anyone has looked at this before, but I thought it was worth putting out there for consideration.

I have my own thoughts on possible causes of this development, but my goal here isn't to editorialize, it's to present facts, and the fact that one game has stayed basically the same in pandemic-adjusted terms while the other has dropped precipitously would seem to indicate that there's reasons other than the pandemic. I'll leave the possible reasons for this divergence between 1e and 2e participation as an exercise to the reader.
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 - Delta Quadrant
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#559728
In my case COVID has actually enhanced my participation in Trek due to more online tourneys. But I have retired from "local" 2E cause I do not like the direction this game heads. I personally dislike most of the recent erratas. And in comparison to 2E, 1E is thrieving and currently (emphasis) in my opinion the far more fun game and much more balanced.
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By Cmdr Xym (Joseph Bazemore)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#559750
Our local has been playing 2E with the same group of 6-ish players for many, many years. And that includes during the pandemic. But I think that may have to do more with us enjoying playing together than it does the game itself.

Don't get me wrong, we love 2E (and most of the core group has ZERO interest in 1E) but I gotta say there have been more than a few unpopular opinions about the status of the game from the group lately. Maybe that's what Mr. Sykes is getting at it here. Something is clearly turning players off of 2E.

As far as errata goes...yeah, it might've been overkill. Fixing OT Kirk was a move in the right direction, but Hard Time and Unexpected Difficulties have become binder fodder.

:twocents:
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Chief Programmer
By eberlems
 - Chief Programmer
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Explorer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E  National Second Runner-Up 2023
#559759
I didn't think more than 2 tournaments online at the same time make much sense. With 52 weeks and some breaks ~100 looks good to me.
Better than players missing games every other round.
Good thing that lackey is working and the deck transfer too. But all these need maintenance and more work leaves less time to play.
Local (<150km) games aren't a thing here anymore.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#559760
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:30 am Now we're in 2021, and COVID is definitely still a thing, but something interesting has happened. Looking at completed + scheduled events for 2021, the count currently stands at 66 2e events, and 57 1e events.
The ratio of 2E : 1E may have changed, but according to my math, 2E would be on track for 106 events for the year, given that we're 62% through the year as of today. Does that sound about right?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#559761
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:18 pm
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:30 am Now we're in 2021, and COVID is definitely still a thing, but something interesting has happened. Looking at completed + scheduled events for 2021, the count currently stands at 66 2e events, and 57 1e events.
The ratio of 2E : 1E may have changed, but according to my math, 2E would be on track for 106 events for the year, given that we're 62% through the year as of today. Does that sound about right?
The numbers I gave include all completed events AND all currently scheduled events for 2021. There's no need for extrapolation - all of the numbers are included.

Could there be more events scheduled this year that change the final result? sure. But I've presented as complete a picture as I can given where we are.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#559763
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:30 pm
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:18 pm
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:30 am Now we're in 2021, and COVID is definitely still a thing, but something interesting has happened. Looking at completed + scheduled events for 2021, the count currently stands at 66 2e events, and 57 1e events.
The ratio of 2E : 1E may have changed, but according to my math, 2E would be on track for 106 events for the year, given that we're 62% through the year as of today. Does that sound about right?
The numbers I gave include all completed events AND all currently scheduled events for 2021. There's no need for extrapolation - all of the numbers are included.

Could there be more events scheduled this year that change the final result? sure. But I've presented as complete a picture as I can given where we are.
That's fair. We don't seem to track when a tournament was added to the system, but if I go by the forum posts associated with them, there were at least 20 more 2E events scheduled & started between Aug 14 and Dec 31 last year.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#559768
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:45 pm
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:30 pm
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:18 pm
The ratio of 2E : 1E may have changed, but according to my math, 2E would be on track for 106 events for the year, given that we're 62% through the year as of today. Does that sound about right?
The numbers I gave include all completed events AND all currently scheduled events for 2021. There's no need for extrapolation - all of the numbers are included.

Could there be more events scheduled this year that change the final result? sure. But I've presented as complete a picture as I can given where we are.
That's fair. We don't seem to track when a tournament was added to the system, but if I go by the forum posts associated with them, there were at least 20 more 2E events scheduled & started between Aug 14 and Dec 31 last year.
Looks like the current count, including the online regional that kicked off on 8/9, is 19 for the remainder of this year, so that looks to be on par.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#559769
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:18 pm
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:45 pm
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:30 pm

The numbers I gave include all completed events AND all currently scheduled events for 2021. There's no need for extrapolation - all of the numbers are included.

Could there be more events scheduled this year that change the final result? sure. But I've presented as complete a picture as I can given where we are.
That's fair. We don't seem to track when a tournament was added to the system, but if I go by the forum posts associated with them, there were at least 20 more 2E events scheduled & started between Aug 14 and Dec 31 last year.
Looks like the current count, including the online regional that kicked off on 8/9, is 19 for the remainder of this year, so that looks to be on par.
The count of 20 was meant to be those that appeared in the system *after* 8/14 last year. Not those created and scheduled ahead of time.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#559773
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:21 pm
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:18 pm
JeBuS wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:45 pm
That's fair. We don't seem to track when a tournament was added to the system, but if I go by the forum posts associated with them, there were at least 20 more 2E events scheduled & started between Aug 14 and Dec 31 last year.
Looks like the current count, including the online regional that kicked off on 8/9, is 19 for the remainder of this year, so that looks to be on par.
The count of 20 was meant to be those that appeared in the system *after* 8/14 last year. Not those created and scheduled ahead of time.
Oh ok. I gotcha now.

So you're saying if last year's trend holds you'd expect to see 86 tournaments completed by the end of the year (66 in now +20 new ones between now and the end of the year)? Am I reading that right?

Interesting hypothesis. Definitely something to monitor over the next 4 and a half months.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#559784
@Armus If "really, a Voyager HQ?" is divulging privileged information (I'm not saying that it is.) then yeah, you got it coming.
Only question here is will you do your walk of atonement and redeem yourself?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#559785
monty42 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 pm @Armus If "really, a Voyager HQ?" is divulging privileged information (I'm not saying that it is.) then yeah, you got it coming.
Only question here is will you do your walk of atonement and redeem yourself?
Not much point in that when the insiders have declared me beyond redeeming.

It's OK though, the air is fresher on the outside anyway.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#559786
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:06 pm
monty42 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 pm @Armus If "really, a Voyager HQ?" is divulging privileged information (I'm not saying that it is.) then yeah, you got it coming.
Only question here is will you do your walk of atonement and redeem yourself?
Not much point in that when the insiders have declared me beyond redeeming.

It's OK though, the air is fresher on the outside anyway.
Not much point? It's exactly the point to prove that you're not beyond redeeming!
But that's up to you.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#559790
monty42 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:23 pm
Armus wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:06 pm
monty42 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 pm @Armus If "really, a Voyager HQ?" is divulging privileged information (I'm not saying that it is.) then yeah, you got it coming.
Only question here is will you do your walk of atonement and redeem yourself?
Not much point in that when the insiders have declared me beyond redeeming.

It's OK though, the air is fresher on the outside anyway.
Not much point? It's exactly the point to prove that you're not beyond redeeming!
But that's up to you.
This isn't the thread for this conversation.

I don't know how much you are or aren't privy to, but let's just say there's been some pretty clear lines drawn over PM the last few days.

Let's just say I know where I stand. Feel free to PM me separately if you want to discuss.
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