Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#570718
Welcome to the official Q&A thread for Classification: CIVILIAN. I know recently we've seen most discussions come in tandem with the article releases, but here you can ask any and all questions related to this expansion of the design team, who will do his best to answer them. Questions about the design, testing, creative, art or the expansion overall are all welcome. The designers make no promises they will answer everything though!

Nathan "GooeyChewie" Miracle
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#570753
What was it like working solo on this design?

-crp

It was certainly a different experience. I have been toying around with the idea of a "civilian" themed expansion for years, which helped tremendously in the brainstorming phase. From there I made sure to ask a lot of focused questions to get as much feedback as possible. As mentioned in the article, a lot of people contributed in many ways, so it was wasn't truly a solo effort even though I was the only "designer."
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#570759
MidnightLich wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:57 pm What was it like working solo on this design?

Riffing off this, was it entirely "solo", or did you seek feedback/collaboration or workshop cards with your local playgroup?

I often ask my local playgroup what they'd like to see and run ideas past them. For example, the [Car] personnel's ability originated from a discussion we had last May regarding what a new version of Mot could do.

Also, your article says "Every existing 2E affiliation (including every “sub-affiliation” reporting icon) gets at least one personnel in this expansion."

  • Which affiliation/sub-affiliation was the hardest to whittle it down to one idea for?
  • Which affiliation/sub-affiliation was the hardest to come up with any ideas for?
  • Do you have any that cover the "unofficial" sub-affiliations (i.e. [DS9-E], Khan, KCA, Relativity)?
Starfleet was probably the most difficult for me. Most civilians would not identify as "Starfleet." I thought about Degra, introducing a Xindi would set a precedent that any future Xindi would have to follow, which was beyond the scope of this expansion.

This expansion does not cover any of the "unofficial" sub-affiliations. There is a non-aligned personnel designed to work well with [SF] Dissidents, though.


Which card changed the least through testing?
Which card changed the most through testing?

Mot changed so much that he became a Cardassian!
The [Baj] [DS9] personnel whose first (and only) line of text has been spoiled did not change at all.


As this is a personnel heavy set, did you take a more "top-down" approach, starting with the •Name and story (then translating that to game text); or did you come up with the skills, stats, and game text, and left it to Creative to find a •Name to fit the bill?

Most of the personnel were designed "top-down." Most of the verbs were designed "bottom-up." If I recall correctly, the only verb that started with a Trek story on it was called Ooby Dooby in playtesting, and that's not the story it ended up with in the end. Pillar of the Community went to playtesting as "Port of Call," with a Babylon 5 quote on it. One of the cards what went to playtesting with no actual story whatsoever on it ended up with a card title from the SWCCG expansion "Coruscant" - I think that's my favorite thing Creative came up with for this expansion.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#570761
The Guardian wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:49 pm Welcome to the official Q&A thread for Caretaker.

The pitfalls of Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V :wink:

:shock: Ugh. (Also fixed. Sorry.) -Richard
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#570767
Which card changed most through playtesting? The least?

See above.

Favorite Image?

There is one card that I think is really something fun to look at. That card's on fire!

Favorite Story?

The one I mentioned above with a title from Coruscant. I have a soft spot for stories from the worst episodes of Trek.

Was a card reserved for spoiling on this thread?

Not to my knowledge.

Related to the above: Kyle sent me?

Related to Charlie's question: Would ya do it again?

No. It only worked in this case because I had been toying with the idea off and on for years already, and even then I had to be extremely mindful to overcome my own biases.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#570768
Am I to understand that this set was a one-man show?

One designer, many contributors. I would not classify it as a "one-man show."

Are you guys that short on Designers?

When I stepped down from being the design director, tjark reached out to me to see if there was an expansion idea that I would like to work on. Since I had been working on the premise for so long, I asked if I could go for it. By the time he and Richard asked if I wanted another designer to join in, I already had a whole expansion's worth of cards in the file. (There are 13 cut cards... well, 12 but with a double-sided mission taking up two slots.) It was not a matter of lacking designers.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#570832
With the new Christopher Pike being revealed today, I wanted to ask a Design theory question:

Given errata to cards that give gains "until end of turn" (Covenant comes immediately to mind), what was behind the decision to give this card such an ability vs. end of mission attempt or end of dilemma?

How did that decision go over in playtesting?

Does this mean that "until end of turn" is back on the proverbial table as a design consideration? If so, what changed between the Covenant errata and now?

Pike is designed to work outside of mission attempts (for example, with Vina). He’s similar to Parek, who also can trigger outside mission attempts and also keeps his skill until the end of the turn.

Covenant needed to be changed because it allowed for micro-teaming. In ideal circumstances, you could attempt and complete multiple missions on the same turn with a single personnel. Pike might get more of a mission’s skills on one personnel, but his ability isn’t going to allow him to complete missions on his own. Abilities which last until the end of the turn have never been off the table; we just need to be careful as to what types of bonuses personnel get to keep that long.

As for playtesting, he was found interesting but not abusable. He’s essentially a five-skill personnel who gets to make sure his final skill is the best one for your circumstances in exchange for needing an Orion or Thief around.
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#570869
Starfleet was the most difficult to find a civilian for? The affiliation with Emory and Danica Erickson? What about the Borg?

Yep. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but the fact that the Borg don't have civilians the question became what's the next best thing for them, which led to a story which at least departs a bit from the Collective (without going all the way into Dissidents). Playtester feedback then split that personnel into two!

Starfleet meanwhile feels like it should have civilians galore, but a lot of them posed problems. Some are already in the game and don't really need a new version, like Emory and Danica. Others should probably have be pat of larger groups of cards, like the Earth Cargo Service. So while Starfleet certainly has more civilians, it was more difficult to find one which worked in the context of this expansion.


What card's feedback surprised you the most?

Probably. Detapa Council. It gave an Integrity boost to non-Officer, non-Intelligence Cardassians. I figured it might be too powerful from the start, but the feedback was more negative than expected and it got cut.

How did the Rules review go?

There were a couple of cards which got wording changes, including Pillar of the Community (to make it more clear that you get to do it once per turn, regardless of how many different keywords you play in the turn). There were no major changes from rules, though.

When I think of civilians, mains and command stars do not come to mind but Pike is/has both. Are there more?

Yes to both. The mains (other than Tora Ziyal) are episode-specific.

What was louder, your chortle at 57 V 19 or whatever verbal response you had to 57 V 7?

I had to look up the reference on 57 V 19. My verbal response to 57 V 7 was something along the lines of "Oh, so it won't be Ooby Dooby," so I guess that was louder.

Neither compared to the belly laugh I had at 57 V 6.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#570895
Design can often be seen as a see-saw: one side ("the meta") can be seen to go up, and Design comes along with something to bring it back down. What, if anything, had "gone up" to have Are You Brain Dead?! bring it back down?

The original version that went to playtesting had two functions. The other function was to make a personnel attributes -2 until the end of the dilemma. The attribute reduction worked as a counter to dilemmas such as Adopted Authority and Becalmed, and the stop was meant as a bit of extra functionality in case your opponent did not use such dilemmas. While nobody complained about it hurting Nothing to Lose, playtesters rightly pointed out that the other dilemmas themselves are important meta tools against attribute gain decks. At the same time, the ability stop your own personnel presented some interesting opportunities. I won't go into detail on those opportunities, because I love seeing people figure out good uses for cards that appear to hurt you at face-value.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Community Contributor
#571178
What's the thinking behind Yassim, Vocal Martyr's ability to kill herself for seemingly no reward (unlike her previous version?)

Are there any particular decks or card combinations you expect will be able to take advantage of it.

Jake Sisko would like to be able to play her again, Kira Nerys gets a boost from having a Vedek in the discard pile, and Leeta can boost the rest of your Dissidents if Yassim puts you to 10 cards in the discard pile. Or if you want to fuel your non-Dissidents a bit, this Kira or Nasin can take advantage of having her in the discard pile. And that's all before we consider other [Baj] -related cards that care about the discard pile, or the fact that you don't have to use the ability and can just have a 1-cost (plus discard) 8-Integrity personnel with three of the skills plus one instance of Dissident for Kelvas V.

EDIT: Fair enough. Can you tell I've never really played Bajorans or Dissidents! :D

All the Best,

Mattgomery Scott.
Last edited by MattgomeryScott on Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#571182
What did you learn, in terms of 2E design, while working on this project?

It's easy to think of playtesting in terms of "is this card balanced," but it's also good to ask specifically and directly "does this card interest you." There's a personnel who has no ability (other than a keyword) who I was ready to cut, but two playtesters responded to that question. One said the personnel playable, the other said they liked the personnel. So to my own surprise, the personnel stayed.

-crp
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#571185
How did you decide to make Yassim a talkie?

I felt like the scene the ability recreates has too much gravitas for her to simply say "kill this personnel." This card was another instance in which I asked how playtesters felt about a card, rather than purely about the balance. The feedback was mostly positive, the rest ambivalent. I did want to make sure the "talkie" aspect is presented as an effect, so your opponent can't claim you didn't pay the cost if you don't want to say it.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#571222
A year passes, and you take a look at the decks that've used cards from Classification: CIVILIAN. What are you...

  • expecting to see as the most popular card used?
  • surprised to see appearing in a list of popular cards used?
Most popular card used will likely be the first dilemma. It's pretty good even on its own, and especially good in the current environment. Plus the fact that it does not depend on your draw deck at all means it won't be limited by affiliation like most lot of the personnel.
The card I'd be most surprised to see in a list of popular cards used would probably be the one event that has not yet been revealed. It helps patch a problem with a particular decktype, but the decktype itself is already a niche one.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#571223
What card's going to have the biggest appeal for...

  • Timmy
  • Johnny
  • Spike
  • Melvin
  • Vorthos
Timmy doesn't mind losing, so long as when they win, they win big. I think Quark will likely appeal to Timmy. As today's article mentioned, you can get 46 Strength of 5 personnel! Sure, stopping any one of those personnel drops you to at most 34, and Quark will have a huge target on him, and in general there's a lot of dilemmas which can mess with that strategy. But when you pull it off, it's amazing. Honorable mention: The [Voy] personnel.

Johnny likes to figure out ways to make unusual interactions good. I think Elias Giger (see Facebook spoiler) will appeal to Johnny. At first his order seems about as useful as his cellular regeneration device (that is to say, not at all), but if you can manipulate your deck there are opportunities to make it useful. Honorable mention: Marauder Mo. Wait, that's not the right name...

Spike likes to win. Spike will use that dilemma I mentioned in that last post. Honorable mention: The [Car] personnel. He's not overwhelmingly good, and there can be a bit of randomness, but he doesn't have much drawback either.

Vorthos likes cards that feel 'right.' They like cards that feel like Trek, and where different elements of the card line up nicely. I think Vorthos would enjoy Yassim, Vocal Martyr. It has the 'talkie' aspect, she does exactly what she did in the episode, and the subtitle is both accurate to what she did and perfectly encapsulates the order (both the 'talkie' aspect and the 'kill this personnel' part). Honorable mention: Only a Temporary Setback, for the fact that the lore describes the two "good" probes, as Dukat talks about ferrying freight (in a [Car] ship) and foreign dignitaries (non-[Car] personnel).

Melvin likes the more mechanical side of things. I think Melvins would also like Only a Temporary Setback, since they would recognize both the 'probe' mechanic from 1E and the 'discarding of the top cards of the deck' Cardassian mechanic. Honorable mention: The event I mentioned in the last post. Melvin will appreciate the fact that it tap-dances around a certain point to make sure the appropriate personnel still qualify for certain bonuses.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#571707
Tonight's the night! And I'm excited! We already have a tournament scheduled for next week, and I'm debating between Borg Expand the Collective and Voyager Think Tank. Of course, me being me, I'll probably end up with something completely different by then. So I am switching from As to Qs!

Everybody else, what's the first thing you plan to build using something from Classification: CIVILIAN?
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