Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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 - Beta Quadrant
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#579566
All the Borg Dissidents have the text, "While you command a [Bor] non-Dissident personnel, this personnel loses all of her skills and her next ability."

The rules say of stopped personnel - "You cannot use the game text, attributes, icons, or any other characteristic of any of your personnel or ships that are stopped." So this would seem to suggest that the stopped [Bor] loses their ability to be a Dissident as it pertains to meeting requirements, making them a "[Bor] non-Dissident personnel".

This would mean that all your unstopped [Bor] Dissidents lose all of their skills and next abilities as soon as one of them gets stopped. Drones that lose Drone and gain Dissident from Sphere 117 are fine since they don't have text that says they lose everything if a non-Dissident comes into being.

Is this how this was intended to work? Or is there piece of this that I'm missing?
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#579569
I think this links to the "Is the affiliation icon an icon?" question that was posted recently.

See, if it is, then once one of your [Bor] Dissidents become stopped, then they also stop being [Bor] (temporarily, until unstopped), which means it doesn't trigger your other Dissidents "While you command a [Bor] non-Dissident personnel..." game text (because you don't command a [Bor] non-Dissident, you command a stopped non- [Bor] non-Dissident personnel...).
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 - Beta Quadrant
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#579573
Danny wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:56 am I think this links to the "Is the affiliation icon an icon?" question that was posted recently.

See, if it is, then once one of your [Bor] Dissidents become stopped, then they also stop being [Bor] (temporarily, until unstopped), which means it doesn't trigger your other Dissidents "While you command a [Bor] non-Dissident personnel..." game text (because you don't command a [Bor] non-Dissident, you command a stopped non- [Bor] non-Dissident personnel...).
Hm, I think I opined in that thread that the affiliation icon is definitely an icon (because there are several things that require that icon to be active to happen, like attempting a mission with a matching affiliation icon), but that it wasn't the only characteristic of a card that made that card that affiliation, because the rules say that background art and color of the card are also characteristics that make a card a certain affiliation.

So a ruling that not being able to use your affiliation icon makes the card not that affiliation anymore would definitely resolve this question in the manner that you describe. But I would think that would require the rulebook to remove the references to art and color as other indicators of the affiliation. Personally, I think that such a ruling would cause a lot of problems though.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#579575
Regardless of whether you think of [Bor] as an icon or not, affiliation certainly falls under "any other characteristics." For that matter, the card type "personnel" is a characteristic that they cannot use while stopped. Stopped cards are essentially blank, with two exceptions: the title for purposes of uniqueness only; and for the purposes of cards which specifically state that they affect stopped cards.
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 - Beta Quadrant
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#579587
GooeyChewie wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:01 am Regardless of whether you think of [Bor] as an icon or not, affiliation certainly falls under "any other characteristics." For that matter, the card type "personnel" is a characteristic that they cannot use while stopped. Stopped cards are essentially blank, with two exceptions: the title for purposes of uniqueness only; and for the purposes of cards which specifically state that they affect stopped cards.
I think that would solve the issue with the Dissidents. That said, the phrase "stopped personnel" appears several times in the rulebook so, to me at least, it really was not obvious that a personnel card that is stopped shouldn't be considered a personnel anymore. Also, there are references to "all personnel" as including stopped personnel which would seem to muddy the issue?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#579589
If you have a stopped [Bor] personnel, they don't count toward anything requiring you to command [Bor] personnel.

Therefore it follows that they don't count toward commanding a " [Bor] non-dissident personnel" for purposes of switching off unstopped Borg Dissident abilities.
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 - Beta Quadrant
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#579590
Armus wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:51 am If you have a stopped [Bor] personnel, they don't count toward anything requiring you to command [Bor] personnel.

Therefore it follows that they don't count toward commanding a " [Bor] non-dissident personnel" for purposes of switching off unstopped Borg Dissident abilities.
That makes the most sense to me, thanks!
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#579591
abargar7510 wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:54 am
Armus wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:51 am If you have a stopped [Bor] personnel, they don't count toward anything requiring you to command [Bor] personnel.

Therefore it follows that they don't count toward commanding a " [Bor] non-dissident personnel" for purposes of switching off unstopped Borg Dissident abilities.
That makes the most sense to me, thanks!
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