Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#580662
Welcome to the official Q&A thread for The Menagerie. I know recently we've seen most discussions come in tandem with the article releases, but here you can ask any and all questions related to this expansion of the design team, who will do their best to answer them. Questions about the design, testing, creative, art or the expansion overall are all welcome. The designers make no promises they will answer everything though!

Richard "The Guardian" New
Tjark "tjark" Ott
Benjamin "Gorgo Primus" Rostoker
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Chief Programmer
By eberlems
 - Chief Programmer
 -  
Explorer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E  National Second Runner-Up 2023
#580674
How many card suggestions were send in?

TJark would be the one who'd know the exact numbers of what got sent to him. Of that pile, I don't remember how many got handed to the team to consider for inclusion but it was probably a few dozen - including, for full disclosure, some of the suggestions I'd sent in as a regular player before I was hired as a designer and brought on.
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#580721
The intro article mentioned that Androids changed the least during development. What changed the most?
If we're talking about entire [sub-]affiliations of cards, probably the Bajorans.

What card had the most input from Rules?
I think it was either one of the unrevealed Khan cards or an unrevealed Bajoran card.
I think we're thinking of the same Khan card. It's a fairly simple idea, but has the unfortunate quality of being hard to describe succinctly. (And besides both sides of Cardassia Prime, the only card in the set without room for lore. Sorry. I know some people hate that.) Proofing also asked for quite a few more words, so we had to make sure the shortcuts we were thinking of worked like we wanted.

Best image?
That’d be Cardassia Prime, Storm the Castle for my taste.
Ben has a great pick. The ship is also gorgeous.

Which card will be the first you put in your deck?
A dilemma.
I'm looking forward to making a Cardassian Dissident deck, so most of those go in at the same time, but I suppose Cardassia Prime would be the first.

Which card will school you in a way that will make you inwardly smile?
Don't really know how to answer this one. Stella!?
The Bajoran Commander.

Is this more of a beginner set or more advanced?
There are a lot of very simple cards in here, and some rather complex looking ones. So I'd say it's both and neither, which seems par for the course when you're starting off with a pile of cards from a bunch of people who aren't really coordinating with each other. Though, to be fair, I should add that some cards from that pile ended up becoming more complex while others were simplified over the course of their development.
Not to mention combining cards. If you're familiar with the Magic player profiles (which I know not everyone is and not everyone likes), this is a pretty Johnny set. People who like themes are going to enjoy pulling off some combinations. But I'm sure some people are going to mine specific cards for other decks too.

Star Power?
Quite a lot. One star even got two cards in two different colours.

Kyle sent me.
[Car] 1 Rekelen
Cardassian
[Stf]
[SD] Archaeology [SD] Diplomacy [SD] Exobiology [SD] Medical [SD] Navigation
Dissident. When you play this personnel, discard a card
from hand.
“They’ve already tried to kill us once. They’re sure to try again.”
INTEGRITY 6 CUNNING 6 STRENGTH 4
58 V 24
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#580779
Not to mention combining cards. If you're familiar with the Magic player profiles (which I know not everyone is and not everyone likes), this is a pretty Johnny set. People who like themes are going to enjoy pulling off some combinations. But I'm sure some people are going to mine specific cards for other decks too.
:D
Quite a lot. One star even got two cards in two different colours.
[Baj] Quark coming?

I do have a note on my desk of characters that we saw have orb experiences or visions of the Prophets and he on that list…
 
By MvComedy
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#581248
I was surprised to see that the new Odo is not an infiltrator. Was giving him the Infiltrator keyword considered at any point?
I suppose there is an argument that he could have been, as he did a bit of it after the disease started to take hold - including spending three minutes or so impersonating the Female Changeling to help steal a Breen weapon. But doing so took so much out of him that he left the group for DS9 right after cause it put him near death, and due to that I can also see a good argument that he was no longer able to do sustained regular infiltration at this point in the series. Either way, to directly answer your question, he wasn’t handed to us with that keyword and I don’t think we had any formal discussion on adding it to him either.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#581249
MvComedy wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:41 pm I was surprised to see that the new Odo is not an infiltrator. Was giving him the Infiltrator keyword considered at any point?
Hard to infiltrate when you can’t shape shift?
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#581257
Just going to paraphrase @MvComedy's post here:

"I was surprised to see that the new Odo Kirk-bot is not an infiltrator. Was giving him the Infiltrator keyword considered at any point?"
I did consider it for a while, but decided that since this persona was trying to capture him in general and not just him aboard the Enterprise, and since he was poor enough at impersonation that Spock seems to have found him out almost as quickly as he did the mirror Kirk, and lastly since this Kirk wasn’t just trying to slip in to do an undercover job as ‘Kirk’ and ditch but rather seemed to plan to completely and permanently replace him (in part as a matter of principle due to being the ‘superior’ version)… the keyword felt a bit off to me. On top of that I knew I wanted him to mirror ‘Highly-Decorated Captain’ and so had already planned to model that side of him by giving him Infiltration and Punishment cards as download targets. Giving him both those downloads and the keyword seemed a bit too much in any event. So, in this case the answer is yes it was briefly considered but it was decided to go this route instead.
 
By karonofborg13 (Matthew Hayes)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Architect
#581385
Is 14 a mission? Are 19 and 20 new Borg personnel?

Yes and no.

Also, are the cards legal for play this Friday? (The associated blurb is ‘This card is not legal until this expansion is released’) if yes, and it has changed from the long-standing ‘not legal until one week from release,’ I applaud and appreciate the change.

The new cards will still be legal one week after release (the 29th). Errata is legal immediately, but to be clear, in the article posted today, the errata spoiled was for explanation purposes. That errata has not been officially released (no images or anything to print) and will be released around the same time as the set legality.

So, new stuff for continentals this weekend, if so/yes! I like it.

Lmk if that is incorrect.

Unfortunately for your enthusiasm, that is incorrect. We try not to disrupt major tournaments and this time of year is always a bit of a minefield. New cards just before an event can do that. However, we hope it sparks discussion at the event. And release events can always override the one week embargo.
 
By karonofborg13 (Matthew Hayes)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Architect
#581414
Okay. So there seems to be an error on the site. The currently being spoiled new Menagerie cards do have ‘this card is not tournament legal until this expansion is released.’

???

If that is an accurate statement, and as The Menagerie is being released on this very Friday, July 22nd, then it follows that the cards should be legal for play this Friday. Should they not?

And specifically on the matter of cards of any new virtual expansion having to wait one week from the set’s release…
that might have had a logical reason/purpose/or consideration when sets of STCCG were physical and sold to the public in stores as a courtesy (?) that not everybody may have been able to buy on day of release (if that was in fact the logicality of such), but, as that occurrence ended in 2007/2008, what sense does it make to maintain that policy some 13-14 years later?
Heck, iinm, even MtG products are legal for the format(s) they serve on their release dates.


Feel free to redirect my inquiry to any staffing department head or board member that can better answer, if that’s not your department. Thank you for your time/assistance.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#581415
karonofborg13 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:24 pm Okay. So there seems to be an error on the site. The currently being spoiled new Menagerie cards do have ‘this card is not tournament legal until this expansion is released.’

???

If that is an accurate statement, and as The Menagerie is being released on this very Friday, July 22nd, then it follows that the cards should be legal for play this Friday. Should they not?

And specifically on the matter of cards of any new virtual expansion having to wait one week from the set’s release…
that might have had a logical reason/purpose/or consideration when sets of STCCG were physical and sold to the public in stores as a courtesy (?) that not everybody may have been able to buy on day of release (if that was in fact the logicality of such), but, as that occurrence ended in 2007/2008, what sense does it make to maintain that policy some 13-14 years later?
Heck, iinm, even MtG products are legal for the format(s) they serve on their release dates.


Feel free to redirect my inquiry to any staffing department head or board member that can better answer, if that’s not your department. Thank you for your time/assistance.
You don't want to give the insiders who have been playing with the cards for months and know the combos that much of an advantage over players going in blind. ESPECIALLY for a major event.

At least with a week with the full set there's time to tweak decks to account for new dilemmas, maybe swap in a card that improves your tech, etc.

The insider advantage is highest at card release, and declines over time. Going into a tournament the day after a set releases and getting blindsided by a card you didn't know existed is a real feel bad type of moment that I don't think anybody wants.

That said...

L1 Release Events are open season. Nobody is going to stop you from running a day-of local and using new cards -- I think the achievements are even programmed to accommodate that first week.
 
By karonofborg13 (Matthew Hayes)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Architect
#581418
Thank you, Brian. While I can see your explained reason and do acknowledge the possible validity of it, it has always felt to me as the other side of that very coin…

that of a vocal minority of competitive players (who’ve lobbied the powers that be to maintain this policy) not wanting to have to adjust their decks and/or strategy to accommodate for the newest infusion of cards that could throw a monkey wrench into their works and offset their tried and true (read: tired old boring builds) to truly test their mettle as champion level players who prove they can adapt to the latest thing. Just my long held belief/perspective. Whether right or wrong, mind you.

So, then, it should be a matter of such…
Using The Menagerie as an example (conveniently so) , the set shouldn’t even be released until the 29th in your argument’s case.

And probably why MtG spoilers are finished the week before each respective prerelease weekend, in order for the public to consume and pore over the entire set if so desired.

Maybe spoiler season(s) for Trek should move up their timetables as that model seems to be working for the oldest and still commercially viable CCG on the market?

Just to be sure I understand, what are you suggesting would be the concrete difference between what we do and that model, besides the terminology? Would we hold off on allowing printing for a week? No pdf, no ability to populate a new deck on the deckbuilder between full spoilerage and “release?”
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#581420
karonofborg13 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:46 pm Thank you, Brian. While I can see your explained reason and do acknowledge the possible validity of it, it has always felt to me as the other side of that very coin…

that of a vocal minority of competitive players (who’ve lobbied the powers that be to maintain this policy) not wanting to have to adjust their decks and/or strategy to accommodate for the newest infusion of cards that could throw a monkey wrench into their works and offset their tried and true (read: tired old boring builds) to truly test their mettle as champion level players who prove they can adapt to the latest thing. Just my long held belief/perspective. Whether right or wrong, mind you.

So, then, it should be a matter of such…
Using The Menagerie as an example (conveniently so) , the set shouldn’t even be released until the 29th in your argument’s case.

And probably why MtG spoilers are finished the week before each respective prerelease weekend, in order for the public to consume and pore over the entire set if so desired.

Maybe spoiler season(s) for Trek should move up their timetables as that model seems to be working for the oldest and still commercially viable CCG on the market?
Look man, I don't claim to know the inner workings of the CC... As one of only an elite handful of people who managed to get myself nerd fired by the powers that be, I'm clearly not on their page (whether that's a good thing or not is an exercise that I'll leave to the reader).

However, even on the merits I'm not sure your approach is better. As one of the biggest proponents of the Hall of Fame format, I definitely sympathize with your desire to get old and busted out of the card pool and make people run something besides a 10-year-old time capsule deck. However, if we're being real, the players who do still play this game don't have the time/inclination/energy/etc. to build a new deck every week, and I unfortunately include myself in that statement.

Also, from a prep perspective, you can prep for a time capsule deck. If there are players who insist on bringing the same thing every time, make them pay by adjusting your deck and/or dilemma pile to better deal with their nonsense - it's not like you don't know what they're doing. Conversely, dropping in a new set and having your friendly local playtester show up at Continentals with a deck that they've been developing since Version B of the new set with tech you've never seen and had no way to prepare for doesn't strike me as being a good answer - you have no control over that, and if you don't have access to the same information, you're going in at a significant disadvantage not of your own making (as opposed to the time capsule player who is CHOOSING to GIVE their opponents an informational advantage by virtue of their decision to not change their deck).

Either way, it kind of is what it is at this point. A week to prep strikes me as a reasonable balance between mitigating insider advantage and having released cards sit unusable for too long after release.
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By Gorgo Primus (Benjamin Rostoker)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#581421
I mean, it sort of isn’t released until it is legal. Everyone just knows all the cards at that point and has time to look them over and test and print them out - there is no major actual significance to the term ‘released’ from what I can tell given everything is online. If it were up to me we’d probably use a different term than ‘release date’, but I don’t think it’d make any practical difference for you at events.

There would still be a week between you seeing every card and being able to use every card at a major event because nobody should be blindsided by a thing they’ve never had a fair opportunity to look at before, and players should have time to make new decks or rework existing ones with the new cards in mind. It’s not a matter of people wanting to protect themselves from having to ‘truly test’ themselves, it’s a matter of being given the chance to be allowed to study for said test and ensuring a tournament isn’t a draw contest where whoever has the most free time to print and present a deck with new stuff prior to the event (whose date was probably planned before the release date even got announced) gets an unfair advantage over people who don’t have the free time to have slotted in the new cards or their counters that they’d really have wanted to use within 14 hours of the last cards being revealed.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#581424
As a current playtester, I would feel super gross being able bring cards I’ve been testing for nearly a year to Continentals this weekend.
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