Gorgo Primus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:11 pm
Armus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:47 pm
jadziadax8 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:46 pm
I'm laughing at this title because this set is literally cards that players wanted, since every card idea was sourced from a player who is not in Design.
Don't oversell it, Maggie. I'm not sure what actually came out is what the players in question actually wanted.
How true. But more later. At first I will repeat some of Alexander Schmitz's words: I can say that some of my submissions made it in. They received changes but all of them were discussed and reasoned for with good communication (at first). All in all a great idea to have a community set and a wonderful opportunity and experience to contribute with my own ideas. Fun stuff! (If only it had kept what it promised)
While one of my cards came out almost identical than submitted, one was slighly changed and two were merged together to one. That's the good stuff. But...
Gorgo Primus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:11 pm
I mean, pretty much every card in the final set is from someone (I think from this thread alone people should have some idea as to why we aren’t outing what came from whom without their consent) who wasn’t in Design at the time of submission, and within the fairly heavy constraints given we did our collective best to make sure what came out was as close to the original as they could reasonably be while being balanced, functional, taken through playtesting, etc.
What was left from my 5 submitted Dissidents is 1 Name (Vornar) and the Keyword Dissident. That's it. I do not know if someone else submitted Dissidents but as far as I can trace it back they were all Richard News cards. So far so bad. 6 cards not submitted by the community.
Gorgo Primus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:11 pm
It is certainly possible that amongst those that changed the most some submitter isn’t fully satisfied, but I think most would be pleased that what they submitted came out nearly identical or at the very least very similar to what they sent in to become an official card in the set.
Yes to the 3 first mentioned cards. NO to the rest.
The new Dissidents have
nothing to do with my Dissidents.
Gorgo Primus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:11 pm
Certainly several submitters were called up at various points during the process to double check with them that they were alright with what was going on to ensure that was the case, so it isn’t like we never had any idea what they were going for with their submission and none of them knew about what was happening either.
Yes. I was called. I was invited to an online meeting. I was allowed to communicate with the creator.
Gorgo Primus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:11 pm
Still this was a really hard project to work on in a lot of ways given it’s nature and was the first set of its kind, so it isn’t outside of realm of possibility that something slipped through on that front and went awry. I can’t really think of any potential candidates for such a thing right now, but if any of the final cards ended up coming out in a way that totally missed the point of what they wanted/intended or feels like a totally different card then they submitted I can only apologize to them and ask for their forgiveness. Every reasonable effort available to us was used to try to make sure that didn’t happen though.
Here I have to disagree. Think about ME!
When I heard from the community set I put together all I had and sent it to Tjark. Garak was one of it. My original Garak also downloaded For Cardassia!, a card, that did not exist at the time when I first made Garak. For Tjark I renamed it to Standing together and now it exists as
Undaunted but my Garak was cut... Tjark wanted more cards, because he liked the dissident idea, so I created more. I have sent in 10 or more Dissident cards. Knowing that they may become changes. Some were changed and it was okay for me.
But the Dissidents they served us now were NOT what I wanted. Never. Not even remotely. They (presumably Richard) just took the idea of Cardassian dissidents and have brewed their (his) own thing.
In development, March 2021, I was disappointed when I heard that dissidents should play with
For Cardassia!, Niala and other unused old crap from the Far Beyond the Stars. Dung is dung, even when you spray it golden. I told them my concerans at the one and other point of the development.
One response was "So, where we (mostly I) bumped against your suggestions was the scope and focus on the Cardassians we already have. In this instance, Far Beyond the Stars is our “seed.” It tried to tie Cardassian Dissidents together with the 1-cost, 30-point trigger from For Cardassia."
And after realizing that there is no point in discussing any further, I gave up. And after the fail with the May 2021 Erratas I told Tjark, that the Dissidents in development have nothing to do with my ideas, so I left that project.
As far as I know the dissidents are completely a DESIGN TEAM THING.
The future will tell if the new dissidents will be played as intended but I cannot imagine that the new Cardassia prime being seen much in game.
Gorgo Primus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:11 pm
To those saying nobody wanted these and blaming everyone in Design that the cards in set were even attempted, I’d say that seems really misguided of those who choose to do so though. As I said, these were indeed community sourced cards from any player who saw the announcements/requests and wanted to submit something (personally I wish the submission announcements were more frequently done so it’d be more likely for players to see them, but they were publicly made and a lot of players evidently did see them cause they submitted things). A fair number of these cards, for better or worse, would probably never have been pitched by someone on this set’s team and yet now they’re here for anyone to use in a tournament. That’s pretty significant imo, and makes the charge that ‘nobody wanted these cards other than the CC’ quite bizarre to me. To a large extent you’d have to blame your fellow players if you think nothing in his set should have ever been made under any circumstances, but I’d honestly be shocked if you honestly did given the variety of things here and the way that some of these cover long standing community hobby horses.
It’s fine to dislike this set or things in it, it’s fine to dislike the way the set was produced, etc. But the OP seems way too extreme and unwarranted in terms of the hows and whys of what it’s saying (though to be clear, that isn’t me saying it should be locked or anything like that). So feel free to hate the set and not want to play with any of it, but clearly at least one person (the submitter) did want it made and I’d wager they usually weren’t alone given some of the responses on the forums.
When I apply this two paragraphs to my dissidents, it comes across as more than cynical.
Now, what I wanted has become to what I absolutely DID NOT want. I wish I hadn't sent in anything from the Dissidents. Now the ship is sailed and I will never get a high integrity Dissident Garak, or a good unique Vornar. The only card that possibly may find a way into my existing high Integrity
deck will be
Brun -> Archaeo and Transporters on a Gul is nice, but unfortunately NOT MY IDEA!