Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#585099
If I use the Novice Mediator to put forward M'Pella, Seductive Employee, does it still count as her being "randomly selected" or has she just been "selected"?
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By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
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Community Contributor
#585159
monty42 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:58 am When something is your choice it is no longer a random selection.
I would also tend to agree with this, but usually when something seems this obvious to me, there's something I'm missing. What would the argument to the contrary look like?
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 - Beta Quadrant
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#585183
edgeofhearing wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:55 am
monty42 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:58 am When something is your choice it is no longer a random selection.
I would also tend to agree with this, but usually when something seems this obvious to me, there's something I'm missing. What would the argument to the contrary look like?
I would say the argument to the contrary is that if something that is your choice is no longer a random selection, using Archer/M'Pella on a random selection would make that whole clause of the dilemma self-nullifying; because it is no longer a random selection, the sentence can't happen in the first place, leading to no effect whatsoever.
Last edited by abargar7510 on Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
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2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#585190
JUST TO ANSWER LUCAS:

I could argue that the type of choice on the dilemma hasn't changed. Just because Archer is asking you to do it in another way doesn't change the original trigger.

I'm not sure I would argue that, but that would be the type of argument one could make.

HOWEVER:

I think I would argue that the selection is still made by the dilemma. Archer just changes the manner in which it's done. If he chose to stop Alice 471, you'd still need to reveal three Androids or kill her. I'd be curious what other think.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Community Contributor
#585193
abargar7510 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:57 pm
edgeofhearing wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:55 am
monty42 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:58 am When something is your choice it is no longer a random selection.
I would also tend to agree with this, but usually when something seems this obvious to me, there's something I'm missing. What would the argument to the contrary look like?
I would say the argument to the contrary is that if something that is your choice is no longer a random selection, using M'Pella on random selection would make that whole clause of the dilemma self-nullifying; because it is no longer a random selection, the sentence can't happen in the first place, leading to no effect whatsoever.
Correct, using hero Archer to choose M'pella means that she's choice-selected, not randomly selected by the dilemma, so her ability doesn't trigger.

You can't rig the wheel, you have to spin it fairly. :wink:
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 - Beta Quadrant
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#585199
Armus wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:16 pm
abargar7510 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:57 pm
edgeofhearing wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:55 am

I would also tend to agree with this, but usually when something seems this obvious to me, there's something I'm missing. What would the argument to the contrary look like?
I would say the argument to the contrary is that if something that is your choice is no longer a random selection, using M'Pella on random selection would make that whole clause of the dilemma self-nullifying; because it is no longer a random selection, the sentence can't happen in the first place, leading to no effect whatsoever.
Correct, using hero Archer to choose M'pella means that she's choice-selected, not randomly selected by the dilemma, so her ability doesn't trigger.

You can't rig the wheel, you have to spin it fairly. :wink:
"Since my first day on the job as a Starfleet captain I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these godforsaken paradoxes - the future is the past, the past is the future, it all gives me a headache."
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
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1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#585368
In favor of it not working:
archer uses the words “your choice” making it seem like the dilemma is modified.


In favor of it still counting as random:
Imagine it said roll a die and rafts the person selected. Archer says “all dice rolls = 6”.

It’s still rolling a die (random selection), Archer just loads the die ahead.
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By Gorgo Primus (Benjamin Rostoker)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#585370
No, this would be more like if it said ‘get a random dice result’ and he said ‘instead of rolling, pick the dice result you’d like to have rolled’. Archer isn’t changing the result, he’s changing the method you use to arrive at one. :twocents:
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