Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#595151
Armus wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:17 pm
monty42 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:11 pm
[*]The Devil
The fact that The Doctor lets you play cards from your Holoprograms and you will almost always play him at a discount puts him level with staffer Sisko, if not worse.

Respectfully disagree on this one.
You just rattled off a 3 card combo that takes at least 3 turns to set up and has a lot of moving pieces. Compared to Staffer Sisko who rolls in, gets bounced to hand (where he's relatively safe) and can plop out onto a ship next turn (which seeing him re-staff a ship you've managed to strand is even more disheartening than watching him clown your interrupts).


Holograms are still down the power rankings (though there's a case to be made that they're underrated). I don't see an issue with them having access to some counter play that's either vulnerable to counter play itself, or takes time and resources to set up.
Fair enough. I just think Molly and Mila are better designed cards because you're paying an actual cost.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#595166
monty42 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:11 pm Good Card:
  • Harried and Harassed
    Natural and effective way to enable interaction. Allows multiple different setups with other dilemmas and/or pursuit cards.
  • Delta Pavonis, Secure Expansion
    Even though there was an entire set in the 40s that was supposed to promote battle, this is the most effective card that does that from this era. Too bad it's not available to more affiliations.
  • Dereliction of Duty
    Good meta-control card that doesn't overstay it's welcome by being overcome at the end of the attempt. Well balanced.
  • A History of Collusion
    Good because it puts the decision on the opponents, how much they like their events.
  • Defend It and Hope
    Other than it's companion, this one is actually useful in other ways than a draw engine
  • Code of the Ushaan
    One of (if not) the most useful cards from both the 40s AND 50s
Bad Card:
  • Bread and Circuses
    A dual dilemma that excludes certain personnel from using their skills, hits both of the doublers and on top of that returns to the dilemma pile. Horrendous!
  • Space Seed
    Two requirements that, even without a filter, are often questionable to meet on a dilemma that will almost always be cost 0 by the time you attempt a planet.
  • Casualties of the Occupation
    No words for that stinker.
  • The Devil
    The fact that The Doctor lets you play cards from your Holoprograms and you will almost always play him at a discount puts him level with staffer Sisko, if not worse.
  • Stunning Reversal
    Never in my entire time of playing this game have I witnessed somebody starting a fight they didn't win. I'm sure it once happened to somebody somewhere but to make a card for that occasion is just ridiculous.
  • The Enemy of My Enemy
    For obvious reasons.
In hindsight I would say there are just about as many cards I liked from the 40s as there are from the 50s.
Similarly there are about as many cards I disliked from the 40s as there are from the 50s.

Thanks @Armus for actually making me go through the sets to find that out because I was initally swayed to one particular side just from all the stupid political bullshit.

One thing I can say is that the 40s made me feel more intense about cards. In both directions though. I intensely loved some of them and I intensely hated some of them.
There were a lot more cards that made me go "meh" in the 50s.

So I'm hoping design is willing push the limits a bit more again in the 60s.
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
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1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#595185
monty42 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:11 pm [*]Stunning Reversal
Never in my entire time of playing this game have I witnessed somebody starting a fight they didn't win. I'm sure it once happened to somebody somewhere but to make a card for that occasion is just ridiculous.

[/list]
More than anything else, battle in this game needs a rework from the ground up.

There's two things that 2E does battle better then 1E:

- You cannot lock someone out of the game by blowing up their reporting location (I still think 1E should say that facilities cannot take hull damage, and that would change things a bit.)
- You can get a variety of rewards


However, it fails at:
- 99.9999% of the time you know who will win before the battle starts. Usually just looking at the printed numbers is enough. You should have a good idea, but there needs to be more risk.
- you cannot decide on the spur to interact with your opponent thru battle. You must include the cards to begin with, reinforcing that it's a mechanical card game instead of a board game type approximation.
- few if any of the rewards can let you come from behind to catch up or win.
- it doesn't have a spark of fun.
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By Neelix (Scott Baughman)
 - Delta Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
  Trek Masters 2E Champion 2024
#595530
Good assessment of the way battle is in sets in the 40s as well as overall. I will say, though, that one reason for the "mechanical" nature of battle is that Second Edition tried to get AWAY from the board game style interaction and focus more on being a card game than First Edition did.

And I appreciate that fact. I like 2E better because it focuses more on being a card game. Battle is an unfortunate casualty of this for the time being but I'd love to see a rework of the battle rules that might fix this.
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