Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#627609
It's Wednesday! We're more than halfway through the week. Since we are over the hump, let's look at a question!

Last Week: Confidence in Jeopardy
8/21/24 Vidiians at Worlds
8/14/24 Vidiian Prognostication
8/7/24 Vidiian Over/Under
7/31/24 The Good, the Bad and the Vidiian
7/24/24 Vidiian Conception
7/17/24 Mission Condiiton
7-10-24 New Affiliation Memoirs
7-3-24 Just for Fun
6-26-24 Signs of Life
6-19-24 Control my Life: Sooner or Later
6-12-24 Items Vs. Interrupts
6-5-24 Meanwhile, Back in the Delta Quadrant
5-29-24 There's Always Tomorrow
5-22-24 Sell Me on Ferengi
5-15-24 Breaking Up Is Hard To Do
5-8-24 Continuing Mission Draft Results
5-1-24 Tell me a (Vidiian) Story
4-24-24 Pick of the Tribbles
4-17-24 Eastward, Ho!
4-10-24 Hanging Around For a Bit
4-3-24 Ferengi. In the Delta Quadrant?
3-27-24 Extra Continues
3-20-24 Out of Continues
3-13-24 Continuing Mission Draft
3-6-24 Mission XXVI
2-28-24 People Vs. Places
2-21-24 Worst of 2024
2-14-24 2 Protect
2-7-24 PPS or SSP?
1-31-24 Four!
1-24-24 Hello, Old Friend
1-17-24 A Unique Preposition
1-10-24 A Certified Genius
1-3-24 Close Every Door to Me!


Worlds is over! I'll be pouring over the data and decks for articles coming up, but I wanted to open the floor, so to speak, about bigger observations. Such as ...

Vidiian Presence: The Vidiians showed up in not one but two decks at Worlds. Specifically Day One and half of them got to Day Two. Not bad for their first big event.

Continuing Mission: A few of the cards from this set made their way to the table including the deck that would claim victory. Glad to see the latest sets are making appearances stages big and small.

Out of Time: With the Chairman's Challenge, most players went for the personnel as opposed of the missions. Even still, personnel wo cost two were not a huge factor overall.

Non-Aligned: They are always there for support, but a couple decks leaned well into this including one that only has two aligned personnel! Not just that, but we see the icon on the tournament page, something rare to see once let alone multiple times at one event.

Those are my overall thoughts, what are yours?
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
1E World Runner-Up 2024
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2024
Prophet
#627612
The Varria missions, while not a problem by themselves, are combining with a lot of other factors to push them far above the power curve. They should be watched immediately and will likely need to be changed in the future.

-crp
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#627613
MidnightLich wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:18 pm The Varria missions, while not a problem by themselves, are combining with a lot of other factors to push them far above the power curve. They should be watched immediately and will likely need to be changed in the future.

-crp
Gee... if only somebody had pointed that out early on...

And if only Designers ever bothered to learn from history....

Can't point those things out though, it's grounds for nerd termination in The Department of Second Edition.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#627638
MidnightLich wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:18 pm The Varria missions, while not a problem by themselves, are combining with a lot of other factors to push them far above the power curve.

I don't think they need too many other factors to push them above; players in London have had success completing the space mission with a crew of six DS9 background weenies and the universally used Ent-J and/or Centaur.

EDIT: Add to that they're both Span 2 missions in the same region, meant the player flew from the space mission to DS9 (3 range used), to the planet to drop some kids off (6 range used), then to the space mission again (8 range used).
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#627639
Armus wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:21 pmCan't point those things out though, it's grounds for nerd termination in The Department of Second Edition.
This, as it turns out, is a lie.

Lots of people dislike cards in playtesting and voice their dislike without repercussion. They are even encouraged to do so!

Brian voiced his dislike for the people making the cards, in insulting terms. He did so while also voicing his dislike of the cards; that part was fine. When given a warning, he doubled down, and was fired for it. He has been lying about why he was fired ever since.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#627642
edgeofhearing wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:02 am
Armus wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:21 pmCan't point those things out though, it's grounds for nerd termination in The Department of Second Edition.
This, as it turns out, is a lie.

Lots of people dislike cards in playtesting and voice their dislike without repercussion. They are even encouraged to do so!

Brian voiced his dislike for the people making the cards, in insulting terms. He did so while also voicing his dislike of the cards; that part was fine. When given a warning, he doubled down, and was fired for it. He has been lying about why he was fired ever since.
Well I obviously no longer have access to the posts in question, but I seem to recall the thrust of my frustration being designers failing to learn from history and making the same design mistakes over and over.

So yeah, I called out the Designers, and I meant it. For context for everyone not privy to the exchange, this was in mid-late 2021 at the peak of the NeuNeuDominion Reign of Terror and the next set had just dropped in the playtesting thread that was full of terrible and broken ideas. This was also right after The Department of Second Edition disappeared John and Ben, and by extension, John's kids, all of whom were a) putting in the playtesting work, and b) actually pretty good at catching bad shit in playtesting. I won't even get into the Star Chamber secret board meeting ban of them, but that didn't help things either to say the least.

You're also leaving out the part where the current Design Director sent me a PM that was every bit as bad if not worse than the things I said in the playtest forums with copies to yourself and multiple board members and never faced any repercussions for his invective-laden rant. Too bad a server crash ate that PM, but you know that's not a lie.

And here we are 3 years later, and The Department of Second Edition has put out... (checks notes)... 8 sets, the majority of which are full of a mix of broken cards and useless cards. Meanwhile the top tier decks from 5 years ago are still what's being played at Worlds, and to the extent other decks have joined them, they've been fueled by said broken cards.

I'm guessing that if The Department of Second Edition hadn't run off all of the loud mouth assholes, who, despite being loudmouth assholes, were actually pretty good at spotting and fixing broken cards, then things like the MVB's Varria Q Bypass deck wouldn't exist.

And for what it's worth, the same basic issues I called out 3 years ago still exist. The same design lessons still aren't being learned, and the same broken cards are still being made.

Oh, and yeah, the game still has no strategic direction.

I've been less outspoken lately, not because the problems have gone away, but because I've found myself giving fewer fucks about the game at all. And from what I'm seeing, I'm not the only one.

Maybe the loudmouth assholes had a point or two on the merits after all...
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#627643
Danny wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:15 am
MidnightLich wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:18 pm The Varria missions, while not a problem by themselves, are combining with a lot of other factors to push them far above the power curve.

I don't think they need too many other factors to push them above; players in London have had success completing the space mission with a crew of six DS9 background weenies and the universally used Ent-J and/or Centaur.

EDIT: Add to that they're both Span 2 missions in the same region, meant the player flew from the space mission to DS9 (3 range used), to the planet to drop some kids off (6 range used), then to the space mission again (8 range used).
Bro, isn't that your design?

Why did you let a pair of in-region 2-span EASY 50 point missions out into the world in the first place? Was that fairly obvious DS9 combo not identified in playtesting?

And it's hardly the only one...
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#627647
Armus wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:58 amBro, isn't that your design?

No. And it's not Ben's either.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#627649
Danny wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:03 am
Armus wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:58 amBro, isn't that your design?

No. And it's not Ben's either.
Ok I'm legit confused.

Your two names are on the design credits for that set. How did a card get in the if the Designers didn't put it in there?

Did you get some sort of Omega Directive from on high or something?
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#627652
Armus wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:37 amOk I'm legit confused.

Your two names are on the design credits for that set. How did a card get in the if the Designers didn't put it in there?

Did you get some sort of Omega Directive from on high or something?

Uncredited contributors; there were a couple of ideas floated that fit the theme of the set, but would look odd coming out standalone or in a future set.
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Director of Operations
 - Director of Operations
 -  
Architect
Donor
#627655
Danny wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:43 am
Armus wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:37 amOk I'm legit confused.

Your two names are on the design credits for that set. How did a card get in the if the Designers didn't put it in there?

Did you get some sort of Omega Directive from on high or something?

Uncredited contributors; there were a couple of ideas floated that fit the theme of the set, but would look odd coming out standalone or in a future set.
I don't love the idea of this due to the perception it could create with the public. And it contrasts with the 1E Department's policy of listing everyone who contributed, no matter how big or small.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#627657
abargar7510 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:45 amI don't love the idea of this due to the perception it could create with the public. And it contrasts with the 1E Department's policy of listing everyone who contributed, no matter how big or small.

Let the record show that the missing of names wasn't at the behest of the set's named designers.

And personally, I think the above is a good policy :thumbsup:
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#627664
Danny wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:59 am
abargar7510 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:45 amI don't love the idea of this due to the perception it could create with the public. And it contrasts with the 1E Department's policy of listing everyone who contributed, no matter how big or small.

Let the record show that the missing of names wasn't at the behest of the set's named designers.

And personally, I think the above is a good policy :thumbsup:
Great, so even when the Designers are putting in legit effort to make good cards, there's some anonymous contributor(s) making bad cards and sliding them in sideways and when the bad cards break things the named designers catch the flack while the real drivers of the problem remain in the Shadows.

That's sus as hell.

If that were my set, I'd be telling "Leadership" that if they're going to force shitty cards on me they can either put that person's name on the set or take mine off.

I know, that's probably more contentious than people would like... probably another reason I got gone.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#627687
This thread has turned into sniping and a spillover of internal disagreements. I am locking it for the time being but may unlock it later.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#627721
Thread unlocked. Please keep any discussions of what may have occurred in private subforums out of the public forums.

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