Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
User avatar
Ambassador
By Linkan (Torbjörn Lindquist)
 - Ambassador
 -  
Architect
#7045
Brad wrote:Also, the dilemma does not mention consume because the word consume does not put dilemmas beneath a mission - it's the italic words behind the word consume that puts the dilemma beneath the mission.
I allways thought that it was designed in the same way as Magic, that the italic words behind a keyword was only reminder text. It really doesn't change much, but it makes it harder to do consume-dilemmas with lots of other text since you need to keep the "reminder text" even when the keyword is established.
Last edited by Linkan on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Brad
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#7055
Linkan wrote:
Brad wrote:Also, the dilemma does not mention consume because the word consume does not put dilemmas beneath a mission - it's the italic words behind the word consume that puts the dilemma beneath the mission.
I allways thought that it was designed in the same way as Magic, that the italic words behind a keyword was only reminder text. It really doesn't change much, but it makes it harder to do consume-dilemmas with lots of other text since you need to keep the "reminder text" even when the keyword is established.
No, no, no, that is not how it works. It is not reminder text. The keyword is there just to help the italic text behind it.
Last edited by Brad on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#7096
Brad wrote:
Linkan wrote:
Brad wrote:Also, the dilemma does not mention consume because the word consume does not put dilemmas beneath a mission - it's the italic words behind the word consume that puts the dilemma beneath the mission.
I allways thought that it was designed in the same way as Magic, that the italic words behind a keyword was only reminder text. It really doesn't change much, but it makes it harder to do consume-dilemmas with lots of other text since you need to keep the "reminder text" even when the keyword is established.
No, no, no, that is not how it works. It is not reminder text. The keyword is there just to help the italic text behind it.
So what is the point of the keyword other than to look pretty and waste space?
Last edited by MilesStuntDouble on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Maelwys (Chris Lobban)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Community Contributor
#7097
MilesStuntDouble wrote:So what is the point of the keyword other than to look pretty and waste space?
It makes it a lot easier to quickly read the card. Once you're familiar with it, if you know what "Consume 2" means, you can skip passed all the italics text and get onto the bulk of the dilemma. Otherwise you'd have to read the same text each time to figure out what the appropriate number is.
Last edited by Maelwys on Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#7105
Maelwys wrote:
MilesStuntDouble wrote:So what is the point of the keyword other than to look pretty and waste space?
It makes it a lot easier to quickly read the card. Once you're familiar with it, if you know what "Consume 2" means, you can skip passed all the italics text and get onto the bulk of the dilemma. Otherwise you'd have to read the same text each time to figure out what the appropriate number is.
So the next question would be, what are the cons of changing the rule to attach the GametextPower to the bold text and not the italics? (Of course the optimal solution is to have both, but it would be nice to have the option when there's a cool card in the works.)
Last edited by AllenGould on Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#7128
Maelwys wrote:
MilesStuntDouble wrote:So what is the point of the keyword other than to look pretty and waste space?
It makes it a lot easier to quickly read the card. Once you're familiar with it, if you know what "Consume 2" means, you can skip passed all the italics text and get onto the bulk of the dilemma. Otherwise you'd have to read the same text each time to figure out what the appropriate number is.
Exactly, it looks pretty and wastes space. Once you are familiar with "Card X", you know exactly what "Card X" does, so you can skip the gametext altogether.

The whole *point* of loaded keywords is to save space (not only in our language, but also on the card itself).

EDIT: Here is a good read: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr72
Last edited by MilesStuntDouble on Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#7129
Brad wrote: No, no, no, that is not how it works. It is not reminder text. The keyword is there just to help the italic text behind it.
Um... I think it is reminder text, as if you use Martia to gain Interlink, she still gets to use the Interlink. Case and point: "ability – Aside from skills, any game text on a personnel is an ability. This includes keywords."
Last edited by MilesStuntDouble on Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Brad
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#7132
MilesStuntDouble wrote:
Maelwys wrote:
MilesStuntDouble wrote:The whole *point* of loaded keywords is to save space (not only in our language, but also on the card itself).
This may be true but i want to point out that there are no loaded keywords in STCCG2E [except maybe Region].
Last edited by Brad on Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Brad
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#7134
MilesStuntDouble wrote:So what is the point of the keyword other than to look pretty and waste space?
Those keywords were put there so that repetitive text was easier to parse out. I think i wrote an article about this when CtA came out even. This is why there is not a lot of new keywords all over the place.
Last edited by Brad on Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Brad
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#7135
MilesStuntDouble wrote:Um... I think it is reminder text, as if you use Martia to gain Interlink, she still gets to use the Interlink. Case and point: "ability – Aside from skills, any game text on a personnel is an ability. This includes keywords."
Martia can gain Interlink but she cannot use the gametext behind interlink because she does not gain gametext. She just gains a skill and keywords - not game text.

I'm sorry that this is off putting and stressful on you. But this is how it has always been. This isn't anything new.
Last edited by Brad on Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By Foreman
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
#7137
Brad wrote: I'm sorry that this is off putting and stressful on you. But this is how it has always been. This isn't anything new.
Is always a loaded keyword? :D
Last edited by Foreman on Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#7141
MilesStuntDouble wrote:
EDIT: Here is a good read: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr72
I like Rosewater, but does anyone know a non-Magic blog of similar quality? (I've been noticing that I'm starting to use more Magic examples, even though I've played more games than that.)
Last edited by AllenGould on Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#7165
MilesStuntDouble wrote:The whole *point* of loaded keywords is to save space (not only in our language, but also on the card itself).
One could also argue that these keywords save space in the long run. Afterall, does it take less space to say "destroy a Decay event in your core" or "destroy an event in your core that destroys itself when it has enough cards on it"? Definitely the wording gets tricky.
Last edited by The Guardian on Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Maelwys (Chris Lobban)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Community Contributor
#7168
The Guardian wrote:One could also argue that these keywords save space in the long run. Afterall, does it take less space to say "destroy a Decay event in your core" or "destroy an event in your core that destroys itself when it has enough cards on it"? Definitely the wording gets tricky.
Those (Consume, Decay, etc) are keywords, but they're not LOADED keywords.
So you could say "destroy a Decay event in your core".
And you could say "when this dilemma is placed under a mission by a Consume dilemma".
But you could not say "when this dilemma is Consumed". Because "Consumed" isn't a game term that describes anything. It's just a keyword.
Last edited by Maelwys on Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#7169
Maelwys wrote:
The Guardian wrote:One could also argue that these keywords save space in the long run. Afterall, does it take less space to say "destroy a Decay event in your core" or "destroy an event in your core that destroys itself when it has enough cards on it"? Definitely the wording gets tricky.
Those (Consume, Decay, etc) are keywords, but they're not LOADED keywords.
So you could say "destroy a Decay event in your core".
And you could say "when this dilemma is placed under a mission by a Consume dilemma".
But you could not say "when this dilemma is Consumed". Because "Consumed" isn't a game term that describes anything. It's just a keyword.
Just because I'm not sure of the purpose of this response, I would like to say that I agree with you and understand. My post was in opposition to Miles's point. He basically was implying (forgive me, Miles, if I am wrong) that the keyword was superfluous if it has text unloading it afterwards. He said that the purpose was to save space, which, if the text was the important part, the keyword was wasting. My point was that by labeling all cards with similar text (the italicized game text associated with the keyword) with said keyword, it makes it easier and less space-consuming to reference on other cards.
Last edited by The Guardian on Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
1EFQ: Game of two halves

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve re[…]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

Happy birthday to @Takket ! :D :thumbsup: […]

Opponents turn

Remodulation