Place to discuss Tribbles CCG
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#482018
Let's assume that we had a consensus that we were going to do a version of 1E's Official Tournament Format (OTF) for Tribbles. What would you like it to look like?

What rule changes would you make?
What cards/powers would you errata?
What cards/powers would you ban?
Any other changes you'd like?

What does your ideal, simplified, clean-up Tribbles look like?
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#482030
I don’t think that it’s necessary to change any rules. I think if you were to make a ban list, it should remove powers that allow you to score points without going out. Off the top of my head, this would mean:

Poison
Utilize
Tally
Score

I’m sure there are more, but I’m on my phone and can’t do research off the top of my head.


Sent through Subspace from the Starship Enterprise
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By flrazor (Jeremy Benedict)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#482033
jadziadax8 wrote:I don’t think that it’s necessary to change any rules. I think if you were to make a ban list, it should remove powers that allow you to score points without going out. Off the top of my head, this would mean:

Poison
Utilize
Tally
Score

I’m sure there are more, but I’m on my phone and can’t do research off the top of my head.
Toxin, which would be one of the few things preventing Discard/Masaka as one of the easiest methods for going out quickly. As long as scoring points is still generally a random occurrence (even in cases where you have a better than average idea of what you might get for it), it still depends on your opponents and their decks and behaviors (like drawing instead of playing to prevent a Score). It's still something to consider, just offering a counterpoint.

Based on overall comments in the past couple years I'd say that Troubles not be included, maybe have a cap on the number of cards of each power in a deck (I don't have a suggestion on what that might be, just an idea).
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By Marquetry
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#482042
I'd be worried about the premise first, that there's a consensus on OTF. I don't think I would be the only person who thinks Tribbles is fine as-is.
We likely wouldn't use it up here (other than trying it as a novelty).

Otherwise... no Trouble pile, maybe some of the complicated powers, like Fizzbin?
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#482043
Marquetry wrote:Otherwise... no Trouble pile
I don't see why we would need to outlaw the Trouble pile in an OTF format. It's already optional. I've only recently seen people put it on the books to get the associated achievements.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#482044
There needs to be a ban list with at least one card:

10 Ante

It's effectively 10 Discard, which was never made for a reason, and it's also immune to Toxin.

Don't believe me? Try playing against the combo I mentioned earlier: Masaka --> 1 Go + 10 Ante = OUT

It shouldn't be that easy.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#482047
Armus wrote:There needs to be a ban list with at least one card:

10 Ante

It's effectively 10 Discard, which was never made for a reason, and it's also immune to Toxin.

Don't believe me? Try playing against the combo I mentioned earlier: Masaka --> 1 Go + 10 Ante = OUT

It shouldn't be that easy.
I deeply wish we'd made Ante pull from the top of the deck, so you can't do this. And that way it would be random as well, so there are higher odds that you'd have to pick someone else's card.

-crp
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#482049
MidnightLich wrote:
Armus wrote:There needs to be a ban list with at least one card:

10 Ante

It's effectively 10 Discard, which was never made for a reason, and it's also immune to Toxin.

Don't believe me? Try playing against the combo I mentioned earlier: Masaka --> 1 Go + 10 Ante = OUT

It shouldn't be that easy.
I deeply wish we'd made Ante pull from the top of the deck, so you can't do this. And that way it would be random as well, so there are higher odds that you'd have to pick someone else's card.

-crp
So change it. That sounds much more interesting.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#482083
Marquetry wrote:I play Ante a lot, it's not that strong... if it was I'd have won a lot more Tribbles games. :P

I'd be more worried about the cards that people rules-lawyer (not sure which ones those are though)
Ask Michael what he thought of Benhosp's QAnon's Manassters deck.

Battle to built up the score pile.

Masaka to reset.

1 Go + 10 Ante to go out.

Jackpot + Easy Out = Bad Game.
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First Edition Art Manager
By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
 -  
#482090
I'd hard RESET the game to Decipher tribble cards for 6 months.

Appoint a Tribble Brand Manager. Build a 5 year plan. One 9-18 card release a year on April 1. Because tradition. The MAXIMUM allowable card text block would be 3 lines. No exceptions.

Winner of Tribble Worlds gets to design a card for the next set.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#482098
jjh wrote:I'd hard RESET the game to Decipher tribble cards for 6 months.

Appoint a Tribble Brand Manager. Build a 5 year plan. One 9-18 card release a year on April 1. Because tradition. The MAXIMUM allowable card text block would be 3 lines. No exceptions.

Winner of Tribble Worlds gets to design a card for the next set.
Your heart is in the right place, Johnny, but I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

There are some CC-created Tribble Powers that have done nothing but benefit the game:

Recycle
Safety
Antidote
Toxin
Freeze

Just to name a few off the top of my head.

Let's not pretend the Decipher Era Tribbles game didn't have its own faults.

I don't think there's THAT MANY problem cards. I think Jackpot strategies need to be harder and/or riskier to implement. I think Easy out strategies need to not exist.

Solve those two and the game should be pretty good.

Here's my ban list:

10 Ante
100,000 Fizzbin
100,000 Tally

You want to run battle? Fine. But Poison/Utilize players will now be able to take full advantage. Want to run Discard? Great. But Toxin can hammer you and your upside just went way down.

I'd settle for trying that. 10 Ante makes the easy out possible and 100k Tally rewards you for playing a Bank deck. We need to get rid of bank decks because they're the main culprit of inflated scores. You want to try to shoot the moon and run up 1M+ in a single round? Go for it, but you'd better go out, and no 100k Fizzbins hanging around in your score pile waiting for a payoff. You want the one round hit? Earn the one round hit.

I bet those tweaks will have an immediate and positive impact to the game, and if more tweaks are needed, we can reassess and go forward from there.

:twocents:
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By Marquetry
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#482154
Armus wrote:
Marquetry wrote:I play Ante a lot, it's not that strong... if it was I'd have won a lot more Tribbles games. :P

I'd be more worried about the cards that people rules-lawyer (not sure which ones those are though)
Ask Michael what he thought of Benhosp's QAnon's Manassters deck.

Battle to built up the score pile.

Masaka to reset.

1 Go + 10 Ante to go out.

Jackpot + Easy Out = Bad Game.
He said it was the same one Ben used at Worlds, Michael doesn't currently seem upset about it (but he is working on something else). I was at the same first table as the deck, seemed normal to me, we had a fun table.

I have no idea why scoring points is a bad thing. If Tribbles is simplified too much, it really becomes like Uno, and there's not much creativity left or room for powers you like.

If it's treated like Hall of Fame, as an optional limited format, that seems fine; while letting major tournaments/locals be run as normal.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#482155
Marquetry wrote:
Armus wrote:
Marquetry wrote:I play Ante a lot, it's not that strong... if it was I'd have won a lot more Tribbles games. :P

I'd be more worried about the cards that people rules-lawyer (not sure which ones those are though)
Ask Michael what he thought of Benhosp's QAnon's Manassters deck.

Battle to built up the score pile.

Masaka to reset.

1 Go + 10 Ante to go out.

Jackpot + Easy Out = Bad Game.
He said it was the same one Ben used at Worlds, Michael doesn't currently seem upset about it (but he is working on something else). I was at the same first table as the deck, seemed normal to me, we had a fun table.

I have no idea why scoring points is a bad thing. If Tribbles is simplified too much, it really becomes like Uno, and there's not much creativity left or room for powers you like.

If it's treated like Hall of Fame, as an optional limited format, that seems fine; while letting major tournaments/locals be run as normal.
Scoring points is the object of the game, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'd actually flip this argument around: when only certain strategies can score enough points at a scale necessary to win, there's not much creativity left or room for powers you like (at least if you want a reasonable shot at competing for the win).

Why would I play, say, an IDIC deck when even if I go out I'll be scoring fewer points by large margin than the Battle player who, oh by the way, has an easier path to an out than I do?
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North American OP Coordinator
By The Ninja Scot (Michael Van Breemen)
 - North American OP Coordinator
 -  
1E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E World Champion 2023
Tribbles World Champion 2022
The Traveler
1E North American Continental Champion 2023
2E North American Continental Champion 2023
  Trek Masters 1E Champion 2024
1E Canadian National Champion 2023
1E American National Champion 2023
2E Canadian National Champion 2023
2E  National Runner-Up 2023
2E American National Second Runner-Up 2023
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
2E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
#482157
In the case of a theoretical OTF situation, I think the easiest way to deal with such things would be is just to limit the number of any one specific card to five. Doesn't outright ban any cards, just limits them.

It still allows you to play certain decks but makes it far more difficult to run them. Yes, it would still allow a possible "bank" deck but it does limit how effective it would be as there'd be only five Tally's.

Anyway, just thinking off the top of my head.

Michael
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