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By Enabran
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E Austrian National Second Runner-Up 2022
#571756
please go ahead
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#571757
i didnt drag my ban on the open forum and my pms about the issue were basically answered with: too late, go away
id be interested in the evidence besides my withdrawn and deleted "deathwishes" which were unrelated to any tournament or the game anyway
Last edited by Ensign Q on Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#571758
DISCO Rox No More wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:13 pm "Right to privacy" was just the lame excuse given by others to justify not justifying the ban.
To be clear, I'm not saying that OP does not need to justify the ban. I'm saying that they need to justify the ban to Ensign Q, not to me and you.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#571759
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:20 pm I'd put forth to the mods that this thread may have run it's course. Just my opinion. But it seems to be accomplishing little other than giving the banned player and his "compatriots" a forum to brew toxicity. Equally so, it's probably not useful to give a forum for people to continue to take shots at the banned. Neither, for what it's worth, is useful unless the decision has the possibility to be reversed or length truncated. I think those things can probably be done through PM's.

Not trying to tell anyone how to do their jobs, just wanted to throw out my :twocents:
Disagree. Better to let people hash it out and have the thread die on its own.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#571761
GooeyChewie wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pm To be clear, I'm not saying that OP does not need to justify the ban. I'm saying that they need to justify the ban to Ensign Q, not to me and you.
And to be clear, I wasn't accusing your behavior of being lame, I was accusing Clerasil's.

You seem to at least be arguing in good faith. I'm not so sure I'd say the same of everyone else here.

EDIT: Not saying no one else is arguing in good faith, just that some people aren't.
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Director of Organized Play
By LORE (Kris Sonsteby)
 - Director of Organized Play
 -  
Architect
1E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
2E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
W.C.T. Chairman's Trophy winner 2014-2015
#571766
GooeyChewie wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pm To be clear, I'm not saying that OP does not need to justify the ban. I'm saying that they need to justify the ban to Ensign Q, not to me and you.
I am not sure that is possible, given Ensign Q does not seem to believe he has done anything to merit the penalties that have been enforced to date.

To be clear, this was ultimately my call. It seems I passed my PoR just ahead of this, but if there is now a change of heart in the community I would gladly tender my resignation and accept that. The bottom line is I take one player telling another player to go kill themselves extremely seriously. That it has apparently happened to multiple people is egregious.

I viewed this incident as "what if they actually do?" What if one more cyber bulling event actually caused one of our players to commit suicide? It is not really all that hard to fathom, given we are all fighting our own demons and mental health tops the list across the globe. If I could do anything to prevent that, I would do so. Sending the offending player to time out is about all I can do in my current role here at the CC, but I damn sure am at least going to do that much.

Thanks for reading.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#571768
id take the ban if im rehabilitated in 2023 and you dont pull up stuff from years ago again.
i never bullied anyone.
In therapy, confrontation can be a therapeutic technique when conflicts arise between how the patient feels and what the patient does. This technique can also prove helpful when the client needs to come to a difficult realization or discrepancy that they are unwilling to confront on their own; the goal is to move the client from being stuck to being unstuck in their actions.
Attack therapy is a type of psychotherapy evolved from ventilation therapy. It involves highly confrontational interaction between the patient and a therapist, or between the patient and fellow patients during therapy, in which the patient may be verbally abused, denounced, or humiliated by the therapist
i also never asked to revoke it, just to bring evidence. but its all just so vague and shady, that i dont even know what was my wrongdoing
Last edited by Ensign Q on Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#571769
I have no skin in the game here, and I am not revealing whether or not I agree with this ban, however:

Firstly, this ban should not have been presented by @Clerasil ToB, it should have been presented by @LORE, or not at all.

Secondly, this is not a Local ban so it should not have been posted in this particular forum.

And Thirdly, if you intend to ban ANYONE from Official Tournament Play, you have a duty to at least, on a general level, advise what constituted the ban so as to warn other players from potentially taking the same action(s), especially since this ban is unpresented.

Generally speaking:

I am not saying you need to disclose what was said, such as " Player X revealed that Player Y is using "this" strategy in Tournament Z", but instead say " Player X revealed an opponent's strategy during an ongoing tournament to other players of that tournament."

Instead of saying "Player X told Player Y to "Kill himself", instead say "Player X made threats against another community member." Notice whether this occurred during a tournament or not is irrelevant.

Because you are announcing whom is being banned, their is no way to shelter the identity of Player X, but there is no reason to disclose whom Player Y is nor is it the community's business whom Player Y is. If someone is a registered sex offender, that person is known and made known to the public, but the public does not get a list of all those against whom that offender violated.

You also do not have to reveal exactly how many times Player X has made each offence, simply that the behavior has been observed multiple times, and that Player X has been warned after each offence necessitating the ban.

I am really saddened that this format was not used.
Last edited by Professor Scott on Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#571771
Professor Scott wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:05 pm
I have no skin in the game here, and I am not revealing whether or not I agree with this ban, however:

Firstly, this ban should not have been presented by @Clerasil ToB, it should have been presented by @LORE, or not at all.

Secondly, this is not a Local ban so it should not have been posted in this particular forum.


And Thirdly, if you intend to ban ANYONE from Official Tournament Play, you have a duty to at least, on a general level, advise what constituted the ban so as to warn other players from potentially taking the same action(s), especially since this ban is unpresented.

I am not saying you need to disclose what was said, such as " Player X revealed that Player Y is using "this" strategy in Tournament Z", but instead say " Player X revealed an opponent's strategy during an ongoing tournament to other players of that tournament."

Instead of saying "Player X told Player Y to "Kill himself", instead say "Player X made threats against another community member." Notice whether this occurred during a tournament or not is irrelevant.

Because you are announcing whom is being banned, their is no way to shelter the identity of Player X, but there is no reason to disclose whom Player Y is nor is it the community's business whom Player Y is. If someone is a registered sex offender, that person is known and made known to the public, but the public does not get a list of all those against whom that offender violated.

You also do not have to reveal exactly how many times Player X has made each offence, simply that the behavior has been observed multiple times, and that Player X has been warned after each offence necessitating the ban.

I am really saddened that this format was not used.
I can help explain this one. This was originally in the 1E Gameplay forum - but it doesn't really belong there. Since OP doesn't have a general or announcement forum I bounced it to two different forums to leave shadow topics (you'll notice it's in Online Tournaments also). It just sorta landed here; admittedly it wasn't the best spot but it had to be somewhere.

*edited for typos and to add links
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#571773
Iron Prime wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:12 pm
Professor Scott wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:05 pm
I have no skin in the game here, and I am not revealing whether or not I agree with this ban, however:

Firstly, this ban should not have been presented by @Clerasil ToB, it should have been presented by @LORE, or not at all.

Secondly, this is not a Local ban so it should not have been posted in this particular forum.


And Thirdly, if you intend to ban ANYONE from Official Tournament Play, you have a duty to at least, on a general level, advise what constituted the ban so as to warn other players from potentially taking the same action(s), especially since this ban is unpresented.

I am not saying you need to disclose what was said, such as " Player X revealed that Player Y is using "this" strategy in Tournament Z", but instead say " Player X revealed an opponent's strategy during an ongoing tournament to other players of that tournament."

Instead of saying "Player X told Player Y to "Kill himself", instead say "Player X made threats against another community member." Notice whether this occurred during a tournament or not is irrelevant.

Because you are announcing whom is being banned, their is no way to shelter the identity of Player X, but there is no reason to disclose whom Player Y is nor is it the community's business whom Player Y is. If someone is a registered sex offender, that person is known and made known to the public, but the public does not get a list of all those against whom that offender violated.

You also do not have to reveal exactly how many times Player X has made each offence, simply that the behavior has been observed multiple times, and that Player X has been warned after each offence necessitating the ban.

I am really saddened that this format was not used.
I can help explain this one. This was originally in the 1E Gameplay forum - but it doesn't really belong there. Since OP doesn't have a general or announcement forum I bounced it to two different forums to leave shadow topics (you'll notice it's in Online Tournaments also). It just sorta landed here; admittedly it wasn't the best spot but it had to be somewhere.

*edited for typos and to add links
That seems fair; you'll notice I offered no suggestion as to where it should have gone, as honestly I have no idea, since again it is unprecedented.
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Director of Organized Play
By LORE (Kris Sonsteby)
 - Director of Organized Play
 -  
Architect
1E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
2E Andoria Regional Champion 2023
W.C.T. Chairman's Trophy winner 2014-2015
#571774
Professor Scott wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:05 pm Because you are announcing whom is being banned, their is no way to shelter the identity of Player X, but there is no reason to disclose whom Player Y is nor is it the community's business whom Player Y is. If someone is a registered sex offender, that person is known and made known to the public, but the public does not get a list of all those against whom that offender violated.

You also do not have to reveal exactly how many times Player X has made each offence, simply that the behavior has been observed multiple times, and that Player X has been warned after each offence necessitating the ban.
For what it is worth, I at no point have stated who Player Y is. Two individuals have come forward in this very thread of their own accord. Perhaps this is a small distinction, but one I believe needs to be noted.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#571775
LORE wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:33 pm
Professor Scott wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:05 pm Because you are announcing whom is being banned, their is no way to shelter the identity of Player X, but there is no reason to disclose whom Player Y is nor is it the community's business whom Player Y is. If someone is a registered sex offender, that person is known and made known to the public, but the public does not get a list of all those against whom that offender violated.

You also do not have to reveal exactly how many times Player X has made each offence, simply that the behavior has been observed multiple times, and that Player X has been warned after each offence necessitating the ban.
For what it is worth, I at no point have stated who Player Y is. Two individuals have come forward in this very thread of their own accord. Perhaps this is a small distinction, but one I believe needs to be noted.
Also fair, I was trying to provide generalized examples as opposed to speaking specifically to ban. I will edit to make that more clear.
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#571776
Ensign Q wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:56 pm
DarkSabre wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:54 pm Just going on record as supporting this decision. I have been the target of Ensign Q’s toxicity and I had been forced to essentially not play in any online tournaments. There are many people who have had toxic experiences with him. If his name had been John Corbett he would have been banned ages ago.
huh? i have 2 tournament records in my pms
cage in jul 19 and tnz release in april20
only scheduling.
i dont even remember you

out of curiosity i looked up the tournament reports.
in tnz you beat me with dominion.
i remember now we both were laughing how silly we were to skip our first turns.
I am referring to your antisemitic comments during a Trekcc meeting and then in the DOJO discord where you doubled down on those comments stating you felt you did nothing wrong at all. I was told that the CC would not do anything about the situation so I had to choose to either play in online tournaments knowing I could be paired with an antisemite or choose not to play.

Many members of the Trek community were there when those incidences happened.
User avatar
 
By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#571777
Professor Scott wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:05 pm I have no skin in the game here, and I am not revealing whether or not I agree with this ban, however:

Firstly, this ban should not have been presented by @Clerasil ToB, it should have been presented by @LORE, or not at all.

Secondly, this is not a Local ban so it should not have been posted in this particular forum.

And Thirdly, if you intend to ban ANYONE from Official Tournament Play, you have a duty to at least, on a general level, advise what constituted the ban so as to warn other players from potentially taking the same action(s), especially since this ban is unpresented.

Generally speaking:

I am not saying you need to disclose what was said, such as " Player X revealed that Player Y is using "this" strategy in Tournament Z", but instead say " Player X revealed an opponent's strategy during an ongoing tournament to other players of that tournament."

Instead of saying "Player X told Player Y to "Kill himself", instead say "Player X made threats against another community member." Notice whether this occurred during a tournament or not is irrelevant.

Because you are announcing whom is being banned, their is no way to shelter the identity of Player X, but there is no reason to disclose whom Player Y is nor is it the community's business whom Player Y is. If someone is a registered sex offender, that person is known and made known to the public, but the public does not get a list of all those against whom that offender violated.

You also do not have to reveal exactly how many times Player X has made each offence, simply that the behavior has been observed multiple times, and that Player X has been warned after each offence necessitating the ban.

I am really saddened that this format was not used.
Agreed.

Also maybe OP needs to make a new forum where they put major announcements, links to temporary rulings, temporary bans, etc. Yes it's on the main page but it'd be nice to have those things listed in the forum. That way they can also add things there for situations such as this.
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