Home of the third annual You Make The Card contest, where the community designs a card for an upcoming Virtual Expansion!
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By thsch (Thomas Schneider)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#110721
Thanks to all of you that have submitted ideas for the gametext. Our Second Edition Lead designer has reviewed all your ideas and we have cut down them to a list of ten possible choices:

Gametext 1:
When any number of your smuggler and thief personnel present are about to be stopped or killed by a dilemma you may place this personnel on the bottom of owners deck to prevent that.
Gametext 2:
When your Smuggler, Thief of Crime card is about to be placed in your discard pile, you may place an equipment from your discard pile at your opponent's headquarters mission to place that card on top of your deck instead. Your opponent now commands that equipment.
Gametext 3:
Place this personnel on the bottom of owner's deck to play a Thief, Smuggler, or Crime card from your discard pile.
Gametext 4:
When this personnel or your Smuggler or thief present is about to be stopped by a dilemma. Place a non- unique personnel you command in your opponent's brig to prevent and overcome that dilemma.
Gametext 5:
When you are about to place a Crime card in your discard pile, you may stop this personnel to place it on the bottom of your deck instead.
Gametext 6:
At the start of your turn, you may discard a Smuggler, Thief, or Crime event to shuffle up to two Smugglers, Thieves, or Crime events from your discard pile into your draw deck.
Gametext 7:
When your Smuggler or Thief present is about to be killed by a dilemma that cost 3 or more, you may give command of an event in your core to your opponent to prevent that.
Gametext 8:
When your Crime card, Smuggler, or Thief is placed in your discard pile, you may discard the top card of your deck to take that card into hand instead.
Gametext 9:
When your event is destroyed by an opponent's card, you may draw a card (or download a Thief or a Smuggler if the event destroyed was a Crime card).
Gametext 10:
When you are about to lose command of a Smuggler or Thief, if you command a Crime event, you may give command of that event to the player on your right to prevent that.
Voting will begin shortly. Up to then feel free to discuss the suggestions and lobby for the gametetxt you have suggested!

EDIT: Voting is now open and will stay open 'til Wednesday, December the 1st, 8AM EDT.
Last edited by thsch on Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Second Edition Creative Manager
By Triumph (Jonathan)
 - Second Edition Creative Manager
 -  
Adventurer
#110745
Huh. Nothing resembling my suggestion made it. Oh well.

I think I like 10 the best, and 1, 4, an 7 all roughly second best. Please present arguments to sway me one way or the other. :D

10 shows Mudd committing various shenanigans (Crime) to avoid getting caught. It promotes using Crime events and smugglers/thieves together. I think it fits the chap.
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 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#110778
I like 1 best, kind of a Kirk for Thieves.

Things I'd Veto:
2 is way complicated.
4 is too weak
8 is big time exploitable, gatherers raid let's you draw your deck and bank heist seems like it would be over the top.
 
By Foreman
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
#110781
I'm a bit disapointed that all of the options basically don't differentiate between a smuggler and a theif. I'm hoping we get something that targets only smugglers in the future.

I'll have to think about which of these is the best. But on a first quick read, I'm worried about number 10. After the recent realisation that Sean Hawkins ability is very powerful, I am wary of any cards that just prevent the loss of command of personnel. And the personnel doesn't even ahve to be present with Mudd, so you could leave him at your HQ and he would never be in danger.

I no idea how #3 works. It seems like it would have to be an order, but you can't play cards during the orders phase.

Also one thing that was mentioned during Make-It-So it is that abilities that can brodcast from the HQ are not a great idea.
#2,3,5,6,8,9,10 can all be used with mudd just sitting at the HQ.

Now that we live in the of Weyoun and Holding cell, the problem of brodcasting abilities isn't as bad, but it is still something to keep in mind when choosing an ability that it may be hard for the opponent to counter it.
Second Edition Creative Manager
By Triumph (Jonathan)
 - Second Edition Creative Manager
 -  
Adventurer
#110783
Your point about globally applicable abilities is EXCELLENT! :thumbsup: Definitely narrows down the choices for me. Whatever Harry does, it should definitely require him to be present. He's all about...personal charm. :wink:

At this point, I like 1 and 4 the best. Both look useful, and can be rationalized to fit the character / Trek sense acceptably. And so far no one has pointed out any major problems with them. :cross:

My objection to 7, which formerly interested me, is that it's ONLY kill prevention, and we've getting various kinds of kill prevention for ages, because of the long-time dominance of Tragic Turn. TT is still dangerous (though perhaps somewhat less popular now thanks to Demigod Archer?), but pure kill prevention just seems boring.

Edit: My preference now leans toward #1. Someone mentioned that the non-unique in 4 doesn't have to be present, which could be troublesome.
Last edited by Triumph on Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#110784
I expect that - once we've picked a winner - we'll find out more about exactly how to word it, and what the implications for the cost might be.

Also keep in mind that the final card still has to go through testing.

-crp
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By ZodoJats
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#110815
MidnightLich wrote:I expect that - once we've picked a winner - we'll find out more about exactly how to word it, and what the implications for the cost might be.

Also keep in mind that the final card still has to go through testing.

-crp
I understand why it has to be this way, but it makes choosing between them difficult, because I don't know if I should select the broken cards here knowing that they can get fixed up, or not select them because they are broken.
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 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#110847
Some interesting ideas! It's funny that after comments that the WotC should be something that most decks could use, almost all cards suggested still work only if you use Thieves, Smugglers, or Crime cards. My idea (#9) still works better if you use those cards, but every deck can make use of the game text. My bad that I didn't learn my lesson with the 'broadcasting' ability. Although, having no 'broadcasting' abilities at all, might be too much of a limiting factor for the game in my opinion.
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By Iron Mike
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E Australian National Runner-Up 2015
2E Australian National Runner-Up 2015
#110848
I think #10 is awesome.
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By chompers (Steve Hartmann)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
1E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
2E Australian Continental Semi-Finalist 2019
#110851
I kinda like 1, 4, 9 and 10.

I particularly like the cost used in 4. A Mudd smuggler thief deck using this gametext would probably stock Rescue Captives and create an interesting battle between a Cardassian capture deck and a Mudd thief smuggler deck. Seems like it could be fun, I think Corbin Entek would be busy!

I am pretty sure it needs to be reworded though because the non-unique does not need to be present which means every dilemma that stops a personnel can be prevented and overcome by placing cheap non-uniques from somewhere else in play in opponents brig. Unless I am mistaken it is currently broken but still a cool concept.

I am not a big fan of transferring events to opponents core however. I am the sort of player that forgets they are there and end up with a smaller deck by the end of the tournament. I think transferring command of cards should be a rare ability.
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By ZodoJats
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#110863
I think it's pretty disappointing that there are no options that fit non-Smuggler/Thief decks, with a possible exception of #9.

#1: I quite like this text. It's a Central Command-on-a-person. He has to be in the attempt, so there are plenty of ways around him. Good text.

#2: Pretty complicated for not much of a benefit. Essentially he gets guys/crimes back from your discard pile, but I think there would be much better ways to do this. There may also be some broken/just dumb combo here involving discarding lots of cards a lot of times in one turn.

#3: This obviously needs rewording, but it's pretty plain too. Again, getting guys back isn't exactly the thing keeping the Smuggler/Thief deck from being good.

#4: Broken as is. In combination with Maras, attempt with Harry and have a bunch of non-uniques at your HQ and just walk through everything. I get that the brig thing is thematic, but I don't like it as a cost, especially when RC can get everyone back.

#5: Right now there are pretty much no good crime cards, so this text doesn't do much to help that. A bit too much of a Dax copy-paste for my liking, doesn't add much to a S/T deck.

#6: This is some nice deck manipulation stuff. It comes off as more interesting than previous get-stuff-back versions, kind of like a Process Ore. But again, I have toyed with S/T a couple of times for fun, this kind of text really isn't what they need to be better, even though it couldn't hurt.

#7: Maras is just better, and is already in the Thief deck x3.

#8: This card is made for looping abuse. If it was restricted to once a turn, it would still be nice, but see above comments.

#9: Very unreliable, and certainly nothing you could base a deck around. It may come in handy, but I don't like having cards that are potentially useless.

#10: Probably broken as is, with the slight limitation of not many Crime events. It obviously shouldn't 'broadcast'. If it only worked present, it would be pretty good, and might be workable. I like text triggering off losing command, but I don't like text giving your opponent command of your cards.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the get people back/put them somewhere other than discard pile abilities. They don't turn a bad deck into a good deck. With the texts as is, I would vote #1. It's powerful, you can almost base a deck around it, but there are several inherent limitations that prevent it getting out of hand, even before you take into account its cost.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#111050
The part I like most about #10 is the cost. I'm not as attached to the effect, it could probably be tuned down, but I like the abstracted "bartering" for services.
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By The Mad Vulcan (J)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#111052
At this point, I like #9 the best. Event destruction is quite rampant in the current meta. That could be an issue for a s/t deck.

#9 is not true event protection (which could be abused), but rather adds a cost to event destruction. With this Mudd in play, an opponent would need to seriously consider the need to destroy the event. There is a benefit for the opponent. A devious player might even combine this with a 'lure' event. One that looks powerful or dangerous but actually serves no better purpose than to get a free download.

(I will admit to having destroyed events just to get a card out of my hand or spend the few extra counters)

#9 because it deters event destruction without outright preventing it or adding an excessive cost. I could see this going into a few non-s/t decks.
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By chompers (Steve Hartmann)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
1E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
2E Australian Continental Semi-Finalist 2019
#111076
The Mad Vulcan wrote:At this point, I like #9 the best. Event destruction is quite rampant in the current meta. That could be an issue for a s/t deck.

#9 is not true event protection (which could be abused), but rather adds a cost to event destruction. With this Mudd in play, an opponent would need to seriously consider the need to destroy the event. There is a benefit for the opponent. A devious player might even combine this with a 'lure' event. One that looks powerful or dangerous but actually serves no better purpose than to get a free download.

(I will admit to having destroyed events just to get a card out of my hand or spend the few extra counters)

#9 because it deters event destruction without outright preventing it or adding an excessive cost. I could see this going into a few non-s/t decks.
Destroy my event so I can do X (draw a card).
Destroy my crime event so I can do Y (download smuggler or thief :thumbsup: ).

It might be more exciting if I could trigger the text by destroying my own events?

A better X might be interesting.

It is good that this text works in all decks though.

Done.

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