Home of the third annual You Make The Card contest, where the community designs a card for an upcoming Virtual Expansion!

Start A new WOTC?

YES! LET'S DO THIS!
8
25%
NO!!! NEVER!!! LET IT GO!!!
21
66%
Let's talk about it and see what happens.
3
9%
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#265399
Latok wrote:Like how Bajorans take what should be a draw back, discarding cards, and turns it into a bonus? It's called not having a boring game, ACE is good.
That's culturally reinforced, limited to one affiliation or those who play multi-HQ (for whom there are already "sticks"). ACE is a bonus that should be a drawback, open to all, regardless of HQ played.
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Second Edition Playtest Manager
By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Second Edition Playtest Manager
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#265411
Being fair, the first two points are the fault of Playtesters more than they are WotC. Also, the second did end ... abruptly.
Triumph wrote:I'd have to hear to some *really* good arguments for why round 4 would be different and how you'd make sure it turns out better before I'd consider supporting such a thing.
Supposing it was more focused. This would take a lot of the bite out of the concept, but if we were to design, say, the non-unique for the Tsukatse Team or the Romulan version of something that all affiliations are getting, there would be less likehood for disaster.
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By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#265429
I like the basic premiss of WotC. But design by committee (no pun intended) is mostly a bad way to go about things. That being said WotC could be a good thing if focused correctly. But as it stands now I don't see how.
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#265568
Danny wrote:
Latok wrote:Like how Bajorans take what should be a draw back, discarding cards, and turns it into a bonus? It's called not having a boring game, ACE is good.
That's culturally reinforced, limited to one affiliation or those who play multi-HQ (for whom there are already "sticks"). ACE is a bonus that should be a drawback, open to all, regardless of HQ played.
It's a bonus amongst a drawback it doesn't get rid of the drawback, also Consume piles have a lot of counters more reasonable ones than multi-HQ too.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#265610
Latok wrote:It's a bonus amongst a drawback it doesn't get rid of the drawback...
Sure it does. It doesn't get rid of the action (of consuming (which should be the drawback)), but it does make it a hell of a lot more palatable.
Latok wrote:...also Consume piles have a lot of counters more reasonable ones than multi-HQ too.
That's only partially true. All the counters that a Consume pile can expect to face (O!NH!, SRR, Genesis Effect, Krim) can be faced but any other dilemma pile (Legacy, Unfair Comparison, Overwhelmed, etc). The difference is that those other piles rarely have the luxury of consuming a dilemma and getting (at the least) a free kill.

Multi-HQ decks, on the other hand, have very specific counters, that don't have any detrimental effect on single or no-HQ decks. Your opponent drops Timeless Odo and you're playing single HQ? Big whoop. You see PII on the other side of the table, and you're rocking Voyager? So what.

You play multi-HQ for the benefits of diverse abilities and cool interactions, so you should expect a little bit of downside from cards out there. You play Consume piles for the cheap kills, cheap all-stops and unique effects (already knowing that there's an additional cost of consuming), so should you expect a free kill just for paying a card's cost?
User avatar
Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#265621
Danny wrote:
Latok wrote:...also Consume piles have a lot of counters more reasonable ones than multi-HQ too.
That's only partially true. All the counters that a Consume pile can expect to face (O!NH!, SRR, Genesis Effect, Krim) can be faced but any other othet dilemma pile (Legacy, Unfair Comparison, Overwhelmed, etc). The difference is that those piles rarely have the luxury of consuming a dilemma and getting (at the least) a free kill.

Multi-HQ decks, on the other hand, have very specific counters, that don't have any detrimental effect on single or no-HQ decks. Your opponent drops Timeless Odo and you're playing single HQ? Big whoop. You see PII on the other side of the table, and you're rocking Voyager? So what.
That's exactly my point, the dilemma counters aren't just for one thing so they are more useful in general and much more likely to be included in a deck.
Danny wrote:
Latok wrote:It's a bonus amongst a drawback it doesn't get rid of the drawback...
Sure it does. It doesn't get rid of the action (of consuming (which should be the drawback)), but it does make it a hell of a lot more palatable.
So it doesn't get rid of the drawback... it provides a chance to get a bonus as well occasionally.
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